Spin Off Discussion from Getting to Know Boquete Police Captain Roberto Espinoza -- Accountability and Responsibility for Crime

[JimAndNena]

Agreed, Pederhaney, the "correctness" to which I was referring was in posting a link to the text I pasted from another site. Just showing the source.

All of Bonnie's observations have been spot on.  Whether anyone is listening or not, I can not say.

[JimAndNena]

On 1/26/2017 at 7:22 AM, Bonnie said:

Moderator Note: This topic originally was part of a topic related to a conversation with the new Boquete Police Captain Roberto Espinoza. (See http://www.chiriqui.life/topic/4775-getting-to-know-boquete-police-captain-roberto-espinoza/.) While related to that breakfast conversation with Captain Espinoza, it has taken on a specific theme, that of the reporting of crimes and the results from such reporting. The management of CL has concluded that this spinoff should be separated as its own topic.

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I hate to be the cynic here, but my experience with crime reporting has inspired no confidence in the Panamanian system of justice. A couple of years ago my next door neighbors were burgled at midday, while having gone to town for lunch. They returned in an hour and fifteen minutes to find an iPad, e-reader, jewelry, and camera missing. (A side door had been left unlocked, each having thought the other locked it.) Their big black dog was unharmed but clearly stressed. They both were relatively new residents at the time so, as a neighbor and as a U.S. warden, I offered to help with the reporting of the crime, as residents have been encouraged to do.

A call to Rodny had sent the Police to the scene, but they conducted no investigation. They told my neighbor, over his fence, to report the crime at the Police station. I went there with him and, after a long delay, we were sent to the Personaria. I had put together in writing (Spanish) what had happened as it was simple and straightforward. Personnel at the Personaria were not interested in it, however. They said we would have to file a denuncia with one of their "agents" (for lack of a more precise term) and that we would need a translator from DIJ in David to do that. A phone call was made, and finally another appointment was made for a couple of days later to fit the translator's schedule. All of this took a good bit of time. That scheduled meeting was cancelled, however, when the translator couldn't make it after all, so there was another wasted trip downtown. About a week after the burglary, we finally met with the translator (who was very nice and very accommodating) and the employee/agent at the Personaria (who was dour and somewhat intimidating). My neighbor answered questions, many of which bore little or no relevance to the burglary, for over an hour even though this was a very simple matter with a limited number of viable suspects: i.e., someone who could see that they were leaving and who knew that the dog was harmless. Then, to top it off, the agent said the neighbor's wife also would have to come in an give a statement--again requiring the scheduling of a meeting with a translator-- even though, of course, she was with her husband the entire time and her testimony was exactly the same as her husband's. Moreover, there was ample opportunity ahead of time to notice us that she would be needed. After all this time and inconvenience, the neighbors never heard from the authorities again. So much for "work[ing] with and coordinat[ing] followup reports with the Personaria." This was as inefficient and non-productive a procedure as I have ever seen. It almost seems to designed to ensure that petty crimes will NOT be reported.

 

I am glad this became its own topic.  The newcomers to the area need to know.

I can not recall reading of anyone getting their stuff returned since Lee and friends sent Ozzie to jail, and the police searched his house.  That was August of 2010 when most of the crimes were "just" thefts.  The recent incidents of home invasions and murders is more serious and the thugs are less likely to see jail time with Ozzie.

One item I would like to ask any Alto al Crimen members is the requirement to go to Panama City to get an arrest warrant?  If that is true then I don't understand how anyone would ever be taken into custody.

 

[Brundageba]

One of the biggest problems is "no room in the inn".  Panama jails are already overcrowded, filthy and a disgrace. It is understandable why the UN forced Panama to not incarcerate juveniles.  To complicate the situation, the justice system is snail slow.   The Wild Bill case has not gone to trial as I understand it.  He has confessed to 5 cold blooded murders with evidence.  Last photo I saw of him in jail he had become buffed and looked mighty happy.

Read this:https://richarddetrich.com/tag/panama-prisons/

Two pictures...1. the overcrowded Panama jails, 2. Wild Bill in jail.   Now somehow Wild Bill does not look like he's suffering any.

 

 

[Keith Woolford]

16 hours ago, Brundageba said:

One of the biggest problems is "no room in the inn".  Panama jails are already overcrowded, filthy and a disgrace.

At least 25 offenders, some of them high risk, were shuffled out of the David jail this weekend and sent to other prisons in the country.

Al menos 25 reos, algunos de alta peligrosidad, fueron trasladados en las últimas horas de la Cárcel Pública de David, Chiriquí, a otros centros penitenciarios de la ciudad de Panamá y el interior del país.

El traslado se dio tras la última reyerta que se registró dentro de este centro carcelario de Chiriquí el pasado jueves, cuando internos de las celdas preventivas 25 y 26, se vieron envueltos en un incidente que dejó al menos dos reos con heridas.

http://www.tvn-2.com/nacionales/provincias/Reos-peligrosidad-Chiriqui-trasladados-distintas-carceles-Panama_0_4683281638.html

[JimAndNena]

16 hours ago, Brundageba said:

One of the biggest problems is "no room in the inn".  Panama jails are already overcrowded, filthy and a disgrace. It is understandable why the UN forced Panama to not incarcerate juveniles.  To complicate the situation, the justice system is snail slow.   The Wild Bill case has not gone to trial as I understand it.  He has confessed to 5 cold blooded murders with evidence.  Last photo I saw of him in jail he had become buffed and looked mighty happy.

Read this:https://richarddetrich.com/tag/panama-prisons/

Two pictures...1. the overcrowded Panama jails, 2. Wild Bill in jail.   Now somehow Wild Bill does not look like he's suffering any.

 

 

Here is a link to the U.S. state department's reporting on Panama. It lists many problems with the prison system, the judicial process, and many other areas of human rights.  It is a bit of a tome but many areas of Panama's laws and working/living conditions are covered.

https://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/humanrightsreport/index.htm?dlid=252843&year=2015

[Brundageba]

The most recent Human Rights report on Panama I could find from the US Dept of State was 2015.  According to this report,  overcrowding was and issue but moreso was prison under-staffing:

"There were 710 prison guards nationwide, including 112 new guards hired in July, but officials estimated the system required 1,400 guards.

The New La Joya prison was reported to be only 12% occupied.  That I found interesting.

Pres Varela allowed early release of hundreds of prisoners to reduce prison population. 

[Bonnie]

 

49 minutes ago, JimAndNena said:

Here is a link to the U.S. state department's reporting on Panama. It lists many problems with the prison system, the judicial process, and many other areas of human rights.  It is a bit of a tome but many areas of Panama's laws and working/living conditions are covered.

https://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/humanrightsreport/index.htm?dlid=252843&year=2015

This link takes you to the Estonia section of the report, but the URL for Panama apparently doesn't work. Just go to the above link and click on Countries/Regions, and scroll down to Panama.

[Bonnie]

17 minutes ago, Brundageba said:

The most recent Human Rights report on Panama I could find from the US Dept of State was 2015.  According to this report,  overcrowding was and issue but moreso was prison under-staffing:

"There were 710 prison guards nationwide, including 112 new guards hired in July, but officials estimated the system required 1,400 guards.

The New La Joya prison was reported to be only 12% occupied.  That I found interesting.

Pres Varela allowed early release of hundreds of prisoners to reduce prison population. 

Is this the report you're referring to? https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41731.pdf

[Brundageba]

No.   The report I found was the US Dept of State, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor, Panama.   This was from the link Jim and Nena provided.   Most recent report on Panama was 2015....at least that I could find.  That was where I drew my quotations from.

[JimAndNena]

23 minutes ago, Bonnie said:

 

This link takes you to the Estonia section of the report, but the URL for Panama apparently doesn't work. Just go to the above link and click on Countries/Regions, and scroll down to Panama.

You are correct, Bonnie.  I just tried the link and it did land on Estonia.  It was necessary to surf to Panama's report. I haven't found anything newer, yet.

 

Try this permalink: http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/humanrightsreport/index.htm?year=2015&dlid=253031

 

Edited February 6, 2017 by JimAndNena
badlink

[Brundageba]

54 minutes ago, Bonnie said:

Is this the report you're referring to? https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41731.pdf

Bonnie,  This was a very interesting report which focused on US funding the effort to reduce narco trafficking and crime associated largely with gun/narco trafficking and gangs in Central American Countries.   What I found interesting was a somewhat weak evaluation of the effectiveness of the effort to shower money and assets this way to reduce these problems. Bottom line seemed to be this: Unless each individual country takes initiative to improve the underlying conditions that lend to crime ( improved education, rehabilitation efforts) crime will persist. That report substantiated that.

I know there has been an effort in Panama to provide more Juvenile detention and rebab facilities and increase the capacity of jails; but this effort strikes me as weak and limp in view of what we are observing in the last several years.  Unless the judicial system in Panama becomes more efficient, the jail overcrowding reduced, the juvenile detention centers with rehab capability increased ....problems will continue.  Education and opportunity for underprivileged youth has to be addressed.

Foreigners who elect to choose to become permanent residents of any one of these countries, should take a sober look at this situation.  If they decide it's their cup of tea, then personal security should be way high on their list of priorities.  Crime has gone from stealing a rake you left outside to entering your bedroom at 2:30 am to stab and shoot you in order to garnor a few bucks and your available stuff.

 

Edited February 6, 2017 by Brundageba

[Bonnie]

I found very interesting the report's conclusion that countries experiencing high crime rates must take responsibility to improve education, employment, opportunity, and rehabilitation. When we or our friends or neighbors become victims of crime, our understandable reaction is some form of "lock 'em up and throw away the key." This report suggests that Panama needs to do more than that, and I agree. Crime needs to be attacked at its roots: poverty and lack of education/opportunity. In the meantime, the government needs to make concerted efforts to get dangerous criminals off the street while the population at large is saddled with the responsibility to take extraordinary security measures.