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Another Day Without Water in Bajo Boquete, and Water Quality Issues


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58 minutes ago, Keith Woolford said:

If I'm not mistaken, Jo and Doug live very close to a source and are not on the Boquete system.

I think more problems with purity are encountered downstream because of the current patchwork that feeds el Alto.

We lived at 8000 ft in the mountains in So Colombia back in the 70's.  We had a small country cabin and our water came from a spring.  There was no civilization above us apart from the local Guambiano Indians.   The water was cold, clear and tasty and LOADED with Giardia  Lamblia &  Entamoeba histolytica .  Antiparasite pills were sold in the local ma-pa stores and locals ate it like candy .  No matter how careful you were...you got sick.  It was just a matter of when and how bad.  Drinking the water without boiling was out of the question.  We boiled our water and yet Bill went from 180 lb to under 135 lb.    He was just not as paranoid as I was with everything else..like salad and local ice cubes. He paid.  It was an eye-opener and we will never forget it.  ( we were young then...in our 20's...so it didn't kill us ....smile)   Sometimes pathogens just spew out of mountains in the water.....before the water even hits a pipe.

Regarding Giardia.  You CAN have it and not be symptomatic.  Stool for Ova and Parasites costs $3 at the lab by Multibank and results can be obtained within 24 hr.  They can detect Giardia in stool.  They do not test for Giardia in water and neither does the other lab by the bridge. Dixon lab is probably the best one for water. You will need a sterile plastic container and clean the faucet well, then get the sample mid stream ( let the water run awhile)  

If you have a home here, get reverse osmosis as well as ultra violet for 100 % security on your drinking water.  Otherwise, boiling for at east 10 minutes works.  We did that for 2 yr when we first got here.

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1 minute ago, Uncle Doug said:

I'm a bit confused. Are tourists in Boquete getting sick on a regular basis? Is the town water that bad??  I've never read reports of that.

I've never been sick from the water here, although I admittedly don't drink much water from the municipal supply (perhaps ice cubes?).

I don't know Doug.  I do know that when I assisted in a weekly medical clinic here that served mostly Ngobe, worms and parasites were common and seen at every clinic.  So that said, they are getting parasites here.   They were probably getting sick  faster and worse than a tourist or resident as water they drink might be coming from a more contaminated source. Also consider their general health is below par on average .   Yes...I'd say contaminated water here is highly possible.  That said, I do not believe the water here is anything like the water I described previously where we were living in the mountains of Colombia.   Considering the broken and leaking PVC water pipes here Bill and I have found that remarkable. 

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I only had problem once for a few hours, and I use the water for ice cubes and heating water to kinda hot in the microwave for instant coffee now. So I think a confounding variable is gut health. I eat a lot of yoghurt and from time to time take enterogermina ampules (available locally). Latest science shows gut health is generally bad in the population and is extremely important in more ways than I ever thought. Not sure if this works with giardia tho.

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16 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

If I'm not mistaken, Jo and Doug live very close to a source and are not on the Boquete system.

I think more problems with purity are encountered downstream because of the current patchwork that feeds el Alto.

Yes, Jo and Doug are my neighbors in Palo Alto. We both enjoy the Palo Alto water system, allegedly built by the Peace Corps around 1969. Because of this, I suspect it's better than most of the other rural water juntas. It's getting old now and requires a good bit of maintenance, but our water administrators stay on top of it and it still serves us well.

For the first six years my husband and I lived here in Palo Alto, we had no water purification system of any kind, only a particle filter out near the main pipe. We didn't boil the water, either, and we never got sick. About five years ago, however, I recognized that we were pushing our luck. We also were getting up in age and therefore likely to suffer more should we be stricken with a water borne malady. So I purchased, at the Bid 4 Boquete auction, the system recommended by Grupo Aguas Chiriqui which consists of three-part filtration and UV sterilization. Better safe than sorry.

Edited by Bonnie
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I have to nominate my water system for first place. It's the Jaramillo Arriba system and serves only the people on our hill -- between Avenida Buenos Aires and Alto Jaramillo. We are never out of water and the bill is less than $20 per year. The lady who runs it also runs the Delta gas station down town. I started boiling my water several years ago. It's not difficult to boil a tea keetle of water and pour it into the Brita picture.

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2 hours ago, Uncle Doug said:

I'm a bit confused. Are tourists in Boquete getting sick on a regular basis? Is the town water that bad??  I've never read reports of that.

I've never been sick from the water here, although I admittedly don't drink much water from the municipal supply (perhaps ice cubes?).

Doug, I guess it depends on who you listen to. I've not seen tourists lined up at local clinics or pharmacies.

Maybe I'm conditioned to it, but drinking tap water has never bothered me here.

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12 hours ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

 

Uncle Doug,

You wrote:

"The US State Department doesn't monitor water quality or quantity anywhere in the world."

The US State Department is engaged in water and sanitation projects all over the world executing their Global Water Strategy through their USAID organization.  Panama is not a participant but a friend of mine who visited me here in Boquete in 2014, a State Department employee, fell in love with the place and has been evaluating Boquete as a potential retirement location.  However, as we know, after Boquete's sewer/water project commenced, water issues became a common day occurrence.  In fact many of our mutual friends canceled vacations to Boquete due to this reason.  One of our friends who is familiar with many of Strategy's projects joked that Boquete is worse than many place in Africa.

I don't know how much you get out, but many of the tourists I run across aren't happy about waking up in their hotel without water and then later visiting an eatery for breakfast also without water. 

Mr. Hampton,

I used to think along the same lines until I reached graduate school where there were no text books and the only dumb question was the one that wasn't asked.

The US State Department doesn't monitor water quality or quantity anywhere in the world."

The US State Department is engaged in water and sanitation projects all over the world executing their Global Water Strategy through their USAID organization.

 

 

The one problem of contention is USAID checking water around the world.  Even if they did, or cared about our water outages in Boquete (like Keith said, they can't check water in West Texas or Flint, MI), the USAID is NOT part of the State Department.  So, perhaps, we can all agree that the State Dept. of the United States is not working on Boquete's water problem,  nor will be in the future.  Neither is USAID going to be helping us.  It's one of the things I love most about Panama.  My ability to not be treated like a child.  I feel more alive when I have to watch where I'm walking because there could be a 12 foot drop off on the sidewalk.  I love that I, and I alone, am in charge of looking out for me.  At age 60, I do not need a daddy.   I like figuring out my own survival. If I'm not interested in keeping me alive, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't expect the country of Panama to step in and fix that.  With the freedom comes responsibility and self-preservation.  But, what a glorious, and sometimes frustrating, feeling that I'm making it with "mostly" my own bootstraps.  I didn't move to outer Bratsylvania, I came here with my eyes opens to what might and might not be available.  

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Keith,  I love your observation.  No one is lined up in clinics with some waterborne disease.  I've never had a case of food poisoning, or Noriega's revenge, since coming here, 4 years now.  I do eat out, buy food from the Central Market, have managed to undercook a few hamburgers or chicken breasts (sorry Honey!!!), but we still have not gotten sick, much as I've tried to, haha.  Luckily, our medical problems are all caused by self-inflicted wounds, or traveling on airplanes filled with coughing folks from who know where.   We have had bouts of pneumonia, but that's about it.  If I do get food poisoning, it will still be less often than the number of times I got it in the U.S.  The chances of pathogenic E. Coli being on your poultry in the U. S. is about 90%. If it were that high here, where people are often not as fastidious (no bacterial wipes at the grocery store for our cart handle....gasp...), we'd definitely see people lined up at clinics.  Food poisoning occurs within 2-24 hours of consumption.  It just isn't a big problem here, compared to the U.S.  

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  • Admin_01 changed the title to Another Day Without Water in Bajo Boquete, and Water Quality Issues

we 

CLARIFICATION:

 

I just checked and much to my surprise this discussion's title had been changed.  When I created this discussion the title was:

 

"Another Day Without Water in Bajo Boquete"

 

The title apparently has been changed to:

 

"Another Day Without Water in Bajo Boquete, and Water Quality Issues"

Which completely changed the scope of the discussion and makes it appear that I'm complaining about water quality.  For the record, I have not complained about the quality of water in Boquete.  I'm expressing my dissatisfaction with the lack of availability of water during a basic routine sewer/water project.

 

Moderators,

 

I  completely understand that this is your website and your rules apply, however, what prevents you from changing my original title to:

 

"Another Day Without Water in Bajo Boquete, Water Quality Issues, and Panamanians"

 

In the event I expressed my disappointment about a response from a Boquete government official on a particular subject?  Nothing.  A simple change can have far reaching implications.

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I think your concerns may be unfounded, Siempre. Your initial post makes clear what your concern is, and everyone understands that discussions routinely move outside the bounds of the original post. The change in the title alerts readers to what is being discussed and makes the quality-of-water issue searchable.

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On 12/21/2017 at 9:54 AM, Brundageba said:

Waaaay before the new water project there were interruptions in the supply of water here in Brisas in Alto Boquete.  For long periods there was water supplied to us only 12 hours a day...if we got it.  A 3 day shut down was not uncommon.  For that reason, those of us who lived here then have learned to deal with it.   We have bigger tanks, we conserve water during the dry season, we have emergency flush jugs of water in the bathroom.  All waste water is utilized, back to the garden...as much as we can.  When water goes off we do not get tweaked as much anymore.   It's just what it is.  We remember many cold showers from the rain gutter.  (So we were having water shut-downs even in the rainy season ! )   When the Flower Fair is on is another time you can expect shut-downs.  I don't care what country you are living in...it will never be exactly the same as your home country.  So life here ?: ...you either deal with it, perpetually grumble and criticize  or move back.   

Allison, no one has ever been able to explain to me why my friends in Milla4 and Oriana in Alto Boquete have water service 24/7 while just a few kilometers south in Brisas Boqueteñas it’s only on for 12 hours max, rarely during the day, at the best of times.

For the most part, like you, we’ve just adapted to the reality of the situation.

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21 hours ago, Brundageba said:

 

Regarding Giardia.  You CAN have it and not be symptomatic.

This is true, because if one becomes ill with Giardia, and go untreated, their bodies eventually get accustomed to the parasite.  Chances are they ignored the first or second episode.  Then, they become healthy carriers.  Same is true of Salmonella, thus we had "Typhoid Mary" running around working in the restaurant business.  It's possible to have such a mild episode of either so it could be easily dismissed by some people.

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4 hours ago, Palo Alto Jo said:

This is true, because if one becomes ill with Giardia, and go untreated, their bodies eventually get accustomed to the parasite.  Chances are they ignored the first or second episode.  Then, they become healthy carriers.  Same is true of Salmonella, thus we had "Typhoid Mary" running around working in the restaurant business.  It's possible to have such a mild episode of either so it could be easily dismissed by some people.

For those who have been around long enough to have become enured to a parasite, will taking an anti-parasite medication make him or her vulnerable to those parasites again?

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I doubt it Bonnie.  Someone here mentioned gut health as well as general health.  I really believe probiotics are important as well as mindfulness of how your system is handling food.  I'm not a nut on this but I do believe some folks can not tolerate gluten ( which may cause a weakening of the gut wall's resistance) .  I don't think it's a bad idea to take a vitamin.  All these things I do believe help maintain resistance.    I think if you have good general health coupled with some common sense you won't have issues here.

By the way there is a giardia vaccination shot series for dogs. Two shots 20 days apart.  Some vets doubt it's efficacy ( USA vets).  They say it will not prevent Giardia in a dog but it will prevent passing cysts that cause spread .  So that said it might be worthwhile if you have a lot of dogs and they are drinking ponded water and pooping in the area they reside.  I don't know.  The whole matter of parasite,amoeba and worms for me is still open for my discovery.  I'm learning....esp now that Bill an I have a dog that HAS tested positive for Giardia in the past.

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2 hours ago, Bonnie said:

For those who have been around long enough to have become enured to a parasite, will taking an anti-parasite medication make him or her vulnerable to those parasites again?

Interesting question Bonnie!  The treatment for parasites is so different from microbes aka bacteria,  that there is no chance you and your personal parasite can build up a resistance to the medicine for worms or parasites.  The medicine, so far, continues to be extremely effective when taken.  This is because it causes the worm or parasite to be broken down in the gut and literally absorbed as food.  They have been using you as their source of food, and the medicine makes them your food.   Parasites don't seem to be able to quickly change in the presence of medicine like bacteria who can become resistant to antibiotics in days if not killed outright the first time they encounter an antibiotic.  People who don't complete their antibiotic prescription are going to kill us all...  If a bacteria survives an antibiotic, it's progeny will also be resistant to it.  

However, let's all hope we never reach a time when LARGE organisms can't be killed.  They could take over the universe.  One thing about parasites is they can adapt to survive as long as they can find a patsy to provide their needs.  They are your basic squatters.  

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Great info, Jo, but I'm not sure you answered my question. Looking at it anew, I don't think the question was clear. I am curious to know if one who has lived here long enough to have developed a resistance to, say, giardia, sacrifices that resistance when he takes an anti-giardia medication? Does starting again with a clean gut, free of giardia, make one susceptible to it once again?

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Bonnie,

 

You wrote:

 

"I think your concerns may be unfounded, Siempre. Your initial post makes clear what your concern is, and everyone understands that discussions routinely move outside the bounds of the original post. The change in the title alerts readers to what is being discussed and makes the quality-of-water issue searchable."

 

However, if they don't read the discussion they won't discover that and just think I'm complaining.

 

That won't be a problem moving forward since I'll be very cautious as to what I post since god knows how it could be changed and hence make me look.

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Bonnie said:

Great info, Jo, but I'm not sure you answered my question. Looking at it anew, I don't think the question was clear. I am curious to know if one who has lived here long enough to have developed a resistance to, say, giardia, sacrifices that resistance when he takes an anti-giardia medication? Does starting again with a clean gut, free of giardia, make one susceptible to it once again?

No.

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57 minutes ago, Bonnie said:

Great info, Jo, but I'm not sure you answered my question. Looking at it anew, I don't think the question was clear. I am curious to know if one who has lived here long enough to have developed a resistance to, say, giardia, sacrifices that resistance when he takes an anti-giardia medication? Does starting again with a clean gut, free of giardia, make one susceptible to it once again?

Oh, I am sorry, I didn't answer that correctly.  The truth is everytime your body sees Giardia, it adapts to it attacks it.  After a while, untreated, your body sort of decides it's no big deal and that it can live as a "host".  You'll continue to have the parasite, if untreated, but the symptoms will lesson.  Clearing them out with a de-wormer won't make your immune system forget that it ever saw them.  It would be like getting over a bee sting reaction.  Your immune system will never again forget how to fight a bee sting, and the next you are stung your body attacks it even quicker.  So, a recurrence of Giardia after de-worming will probably still be milder in people whose bodies have decided to live in peace with the parasite.  Some people's bodies will always react strongly to Giardia, others won't.  But, de-worming will simply wipe them out until the next time you are exposed.  And in general, it's better to not have Giardia than to run around as a host, possibly passing it on the others.  But, out of caution, if it were me, I would never take any de-wormer unless I had an ova and parasite study done to see if I needed it.  I think the medicine should be reserved for when you actually have it.

On a separate note, in Africa, where my dad was a doctor,  every patient that walked in for any reason walked out de-wormed.  I'm sure that was because they were so common in the population.  I'm not sure they are that common in the Chiriqui population to deserve a prophylactic de-wormer on everyone.

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