Another Day Without Water in Bajo Boquete, and Water Quality Issues

[Siempre Soluciones]

Does anyone have any idea when the water will be turned back on?

A friend of mine in the US State Department is laughing at the fact that in the last year Boquete's water availability is rating lower than many cities in several African countries. 

Very sad.

[TwoSailors]

38 minutes ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

Does anyone have any idea when the water will be turned back on?

A friend of mine in the US State Department is laughing at the fact that in the last year Boquete's water availability is rating lower than many cities in several African countries. 

Very sad.

It's ridiculous! 

Cool, Clear, Water:

 

[Keith Woolford]

 Grew up with those beautifully descriptive lyrics

[Keith Woolford]

Quote

A friend of mine in the US State Department is laughing at the fact that in the last year Boquete's water availability is rating lower than many cities in several African countries. 

Very sad.

Beats me as to why the U.S. State Department would keep statistics on the availability rating of potable water in Boquete. 

Does the Department monitor this in every town in the world?

Perhaps they should focus concerns on the potable water supply in backyards such as Flint, Michigan, Texas or Puerto Rico where tens of millions of U.S. citizens are often exposed to unsafe drinking water for various reasons.

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Keith Woolford

[Uncle Doug]

The US State Department doesn't monitor water quality or quantity anywhere in the world. Not here or domestically in the USA. 

Their focus is entirely on diplomacy and foreign politics. And one can question how well they do in regards to that.

I'm not sure anyone outside of Boquete monitors anything here. 

[John R Hampton]

3 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

Beats me as to why the U.S. State Department would keep statistics on the availability rating of potable water in Boquete. 

Does the Department monitor this in every town in the world?

 

What a dumb, arrogant question.

 

[Siempre Soluciones]

9 hours ago, Uncle Doug said:

The US State Department doesn't monitor water quality or quantity anywhere in the world. Not here or domestically in the USA. 

Their focus is entirely on diplomacy and foreign politics. And one can question how well they do in regards to that.

I'm not sure anyone outside of Boquete monitors anything here. 

 

Uncle Doug,

You wrote:

"The US State Department doesn't monitor water quality or quantity anywhere in the world."

The US State Department is engaged in water and sanitation projects all over the world executing their Global Water Strategy through their USAID organization.  Panama is not a participant but a friend of mine who visited me here in Boquete in 2014, a State Department employee, fell in love with the place and has been evaluating Boquete as a potential retirement location.  However, as we know, after Boquete's sewer/water project commenced, water issues became a common day occurrence.  In fact many of our mutual friends canceled vacations to Boquete due to this reason.  One of our friends who is familiar with many of Strategy's projects joked that Boquete is worse than many place in Africa.

I don't know how much you get out, but many of the tourists I run across aren't happy about waking up in their hotel without water and then later visiting an eatery for breakfast also without water. 

Mr. Hampton,

I used to think along the same lines until I reached graduate school where there were no text books and the only dumb question was the one that wasn't asked.

[Keith Woolford]

1 hour ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

hotel without water and then later visiting an eatery for breakfast also without water. 

Are people really so naive as to believe that there wouldn't be interruptions to water service involved during a complete overhaul of the aqueduct system?

As with private homes, it's in the best interest of commercial establishments to have plenty of reserves for the use of their clients.

[Siempre Soluciones]

2 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

Are people really so naive as to believe that there wouldn't be interruptions to water service involved during a complete overhaul of the aqueduct system?

As with private homes, it's in the best interest of commercial establishments to have plenty of reserves for the use of their clients.

Keith,

You wrote:

"Are people really so naive as to believe that there wouldn't be interruptions to water service involved during a complete overhaul of the aqueduct system?"

Service continuity is a vital component in any engineering project.  Simple and effortless measures could've been taken to avoid many of the interruptions during this project but for many reasons weren't.  There was and is zero supervision of this project and for good reason:  There were no financial penalties written into this contract for time delays, quality, impact to community life, let alone end results.  At least that's what two of the supervisors told me and it shows.

To give you an idea, if this were a project in a first world country, there would be a team of people ensuring on a daily basis that the community would be minimally impacted and if not the project would be adjusted accordingly.  Here, zero.  It was sad to see the workers laugh at us when we had to carry my 87 year old neighbor in her wheel chair in ankle deep mud down the street week after week to see her doctor.  I take it you must reside in a gated gringo community with private roads.  I'm sure your community wouldn't accept that level of service, you'd fire them and replace them.

[Keith Woolford]

40 minutes ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

if this were a project in a first world country

It's not.

Get over it.

The water service in our neighbourhood was also just restored after several days of outage and reserves were strained.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Keith Woolford

[Palo Alto Jo]

3 hours ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

The US State Department is engaged in water and sanitation projects all over the world executing their Global Water Strategy through their USAID organization.  Panama is not a participant

Siempre S.  I think you may have contradicted yourself when you stated the above.  Uncle Doug and Keith both get "out and about" , and are involved in Boquete, neither is hunkered down behind private security guards and gates.  We've all had a few times with water outtages, personally mine have only been caused by a broken pipe on my own property, but it's never fun to be out of water.  That said, my guests are amazed at our beautiful, clear, clean, tasty water.  I have clear glass bowl sinks and they stay clear after use.  No spots.  It is better than any bottled water I've ever drunk.  No chlorine, and no pathogens.  Amazing water, something my visitors love.  I'm always surprised to see tourists filling their grocery carts with bottled water, we should do a better job of bragging about our water.  Patience is required when there are temporary problems, but when it is running, the water is fabulous.  

I lived in Africa.  We either boiled our water or added iodine.  It tasted terrible, we lived on Kool-Aid powders to mask the taste and hide the particulate matter.

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Palo Alto Jo
Typo

[Brundageba]

2 hours ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

Keith,

You wrote:

"Are people really so naive as to believe that there wouldn't be interruptions to water service involved during a complete overhaul of the aqueduct system?"

Service continuity is a vital component in any engineering project.  Simple and effortless measures could've been taken to avoid many of the interruptions during this project but for many reasons weren't.  There was and is zero supervision of this project and for good reason:  There were no financial penalties written into this contract for time delays, quality, impact to community life, let alone end results.  At least that's what two of the supervisors told me and it shows.

To give you an idea, if this were a project in a first world country, there would be a team of people ensuring on a daily basis that the community would be minimally impacted and if not the project would be adjusted accordingly.  Here, zero.  It was sad to see the workers laugh at us when we had to carry my 87 year old neighbor in her wheel chair in ankle deep mud down the street week after week to see her doctor.  I take it you must reside in a gated gringo community with private roads.  I'm sure your community wouldn't accept that level of service, you'd fire them and replace them.

Waaaay before the new water project there were interruptions in the supply of water here in Brisas in Alto Boquete.  For long periods there was water supplied to us only 12 hours a day...if we got it.  A 3 day shut down was not uncommon.  For that reason, those of us who lived here then have learned to deal with it.   We have bigger tanks, we conserve water during the dry season, we have emergency flush jugs of water in the bathroom.  All waste water is utilized, back to the garden...as much as we can.  When water goes off we do not get tweaked as much anymore.   It's just what it is.  We remember many cold showers from the rain gutter.  (So we were having water shut-downs even in the rainy season ! )   When the Flower Fair is on is another time you can expect shut-downs.  I don't care what country you are living in...it will never be exactly the same as your home country.  So life here ?: ...you either deal with it, perpetually grumble and criticize  or move back.   

[Brundageba]

Palo Alto Jo, 

Giardia Lamblia is present in untreated water to varying degrees here.  Our water currently is untreated in Boquete.  You are naive.  Reverse Osmosis and other modes of purification are the only for-sures right now.  Clarity of water does not insure it's purity.

Alison

Edited December 21, 2017 by Brundageba

[Pantah]

39 minutes ago, Brundageba said:

Palo Alto Jo, 

Giardia Lamblia is present in untreated water to varying degrees here.  Our water currently is untreated in Boquete.  You are naive.  Reverse Osmosis and other modes of purification are the only for-sures right now.  Clarity of water does not insure it's purity.

Alison

I tested my Bajo Boquete water. It failed for ecoli. However, it was really clear and tasted great! I believe the medicos here recommend treating the tap water. BTW my water source is Las Ladrillos above Los Naranjos. It is maybe the most common source for this area. Right now I don't have any water, so I guess water quality is moot, at least until it comes back.

[Palo Alto Jo]

 

1 hour ago, Brundageba said:

Giardia Lamblia is present in untreated water to varying degrees here.  Our water currently is untreated in Boquete.  You are naive.  Reverse Osmosis and other modes of purification are the only for-sures right now.  Clarity of water does not insure it's purity.

Ouch!  I do have a degree in microbiology/parasitology and had hoped not to be categorized as "naive", but  I've been called worse!  I did have my water tested at the point where it enters our subdivision.  It was negative for E coli , and Giardia.   I still use a millipore/UV light filtration system because I can't test daily.  However, our water's great taste comes from the rocks and minerals it passes through before it reaches my house.  I've lived in many countries, both first and third world, and this is the best tasting I've ever had.  And it's clean.  But as Pantah noted in an earlier post, the quality of the water is moot for those without water.

[Pat]

10 hours ago, John R Hampton said:

 

What a dumb, arrogant question.

 

Did you forget to add “in my opinion” after your comment?

[John R Hampton]

54 minutes ago, Pat said:

Did you forget to add “in my opinion” after your comment?

Oh, thanks for reminding me. Foolishly lost my head and thought I was Keith Woolford there for a moment.  How careless of me. 

What would we do without people like you helping to keep us within the guardrails?

[Pat]

27 minutes ago, John R Hampton said:

Oh, thanks for reminding me. Foolishly lost my head and thought I was Keith Woolford there for a moment.  How careless of me. 

What would we do without people like you helping to keep us within the guardrails?

You are welcome. Glad I could help you.

[Brundageba]

Palo Alto Jo

Question.   We as well had our water tested at the lab on the street in town where the bridge goes to BCP.  It came back negative.  But they only tested for E Coli.  I had asked for Giardia specifically...but you know how that goes.  When i got the results they told me they do not test for Giardia.  Sooo my question is , where did you get that test done?

Thanks in advance

Alison

[Keith Woolford]

If I'm not mistaken, Jo and Doug live very close to a source and are not on the Boquete system.

I think more problems with purity are encountered downstream because of the current patchwork that feeds el Alto.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Keith Woolford

[Palo Alto Jo]

11 minutes ago, Keith Woolford said:

If I'm not mistaken, Jo and Doug live very close to a source and are not on the Boquete system.

I think more problems with purity are encountered downstream because of the current patchwork that feeds el Alto.

This is true Keith.  Good water quality and supply were a top priority for us.  I guess I'm glad Doug insisted after hearing of so many problems.  I'm hoping once the upgrades are completed everyone will have access to good, plentiful water.

[Bud]

2 hours ago, Palo Alto Jo said:

Ouch!  I do have a degree in microbiology/parasitology and had hoped not to be categorized as "naive", but  I've been called worse!  I did have my water tested at the point where it enters our subdivision.  It was negative for E coli , and Giardia.   I still use a millipore/UV light filtration system because I can't test daily.  However, our water's great taste comes from the rocks and minerals it passes through before it reaches my house.  I've lived in many countries, both first and third world, and this is the best tasting I've ever had.  And it's clean.  But as Pantah noted in an earlier post, the quality of the water is moot for those without water.

Palo Alto Jo, Brundegaba, et al.

On the matter of laboratory analysis of a water supply, that is something that we get done on a periodic basis. I read once many decades ago, after oxygen, that water is the second most important thing that is necessary to sustain life. Awkward wording there, but hopefully everyone will understand the point that I am trying to make.

We strongly recommend that your water supply be routinely (not just once) be subjected to laboratory analysis, and then assess what action(s), if any, should be taken based on laboratory results.

The only remaining question, to our way of thinking, is which laboratory to use. The local labs in Boquete can do the testing. However, we found that the results vary greatly, even when using the same water sample. (Go figure!) We then learned of Laboratory Dixon in David. The results there have been the most consistent, but at a slightly higher degree of cost and inconvenience. 

Bottom line here: do yourself a favor and test your water supply routinely (e.g., twice a year unless you have reason to believe there is a problem). Do your due diligence and select a laboratory that gives you a high degree of confidence. (For more information about Laboratory Dixon, do a search here on CL for "Dixon".)

Finally, even with our attention to the purity of our water supply, our doctors (US based as well as our local primary care doctor) recommend that we undergo a prophylactic anti-parasite regimen. We do that once a year.

[Palo Alto Jo]

1 hour ago, Brundageba said:

Palo Alto Jo

Question.   We as well had our water tested at the lab on the street in town where the bridge goes to BCP.  It came back negative.  But they only tested for E Coli.  I had asked for Giardia specifically...but you know how that goes.  When i got the results they told me they do not test for Giardia.  Sooo my question is , where did you get that test done?

Thanks in advance

Alison

Alison

You will need to ask the lab, including the one by the bridge, to add on a microscopic exam for Giardia.  Even if It is not done on a routine water analysis, the test requires a slide, microscope and a drop of blue dye.  A 10 minutes, easy test.    There is an additional fee.  However, they are already doing this test on fecal samples, and so I know they can do it on water, as that is even easier.  Unfortunately, Giardia does not grow on routine agar plates as it is a parasite rather than a microbe.  

E. Coli is grown on an agar plate.  The plate is kept in an incubator, checked daily for growth, and considered negative if no or scant growth appears after 3 days.  If there is E.coli, it is considered the "canary in the coal mine".  The lab is not going to report anything but E. Coli, however none of the other bad actors are found alone, outside the presence of E. Coli.  So keep in mind, If positive for E. Coli it could very likely also contain hepatitis virus, Cholera, Salmonella, Shigella, anything passed through fecal matter.  E. Coli present simply means feces is in the water.  The source of Giardia, a parasite, is through animal urine or feces for the most part.  Giardia look evil.  I've attached a photo of an adult Giardia lamblia.  It appears to be enjoying life.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Palo Alto Jo
Additional info first paragraph, to include additional fee

[Pantah]

14 minutes ago, Bud said:

Palo Alto Jo, Brundegaba, et al.

On the matter of laboratory analysis of a water supply, that is something that we get done on a periodic basis. I read once many decades ago, after oxygen, that water is the second most important thing that is necessary to sustain life. Awkward wording there, but hopefully everyone will understand the point that I am trying to make.

We strongly recommend that your water supply be routinely (not just once) be subjected to laboratory analysis, and then assess what action(s), if any, should be taken based on laboratory results.

The only remaining question, to our way of thinking, is which laboratory to use. The local labs in Boquete can do the testing. However, we found that the results vary greatly, even when using the same water sample. (Go figure!) We then learned of Laboratory Dixon in David. The results there have been the most consistent, but at a slightly higher degree of cost and inconvenience. 

Bottom line here: do yourself a favor and test your water supply routinely (e.g., twice a year unless you have reason to believe there is a problem). Do your due diligence and select a laboratory that gives you a high degree of confidence. (For more information about Laboratory Dixon, do a search here on CL for "Dixon".)

Finally, even with our attention to the purity of our water supply, our doctors (US based as well as our local primary care doctor) recommend that we undergo a prophylactic anti-parasite regimen. We do that once a year.

Because the water is not treated, quality becomes really problematic. Testing one day can be different another day. Years back there was a lecture on this at the Tues. mtg. The takeaway is a lot of variables. Biggest problem was intrusion into the tubos with bad quality pipes (this varies over time). External pressure on the pipes from rain water in the ground, varying water pressure (like none occasionally). So unless the pressure in the pipes is great enough to prevent intrusion, clean water from day to day is a real crap shoot (pun intended).

[Palo Alto Jo]

27 minutes ago, Bud said:

27 minutes ago, Bud said:

Finally, even with our attention to the purity of our water supply, our doctors (US based as well as our local primary care doctor) recommend that we undergo a prophylactic anti-parasite regimen. We do that once a year.

In the case of Giardia, you'll know if you have it.  But, a once a year wormer never hurt anybody.

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Palo Alto Jo
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