Keith Woolford Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) Moderator comment: three separate topics were merged today (May 31, 2017) because they all are addressing the same general subject. The prior topic titles were "Immigration Inspections", "Returning to Panama", and "Expulsion from Panama". This kind of merging is not something we routinely do, but it seemed the most appropriate given the strong relationship between these separate but related topics, and especially relevant because part of these postings were inadvertently associated with a pedophile related topic (which is not related to expatriation and "cleaning up" and "tightening up" of immigration procedures). Immigration Inspectors are working with the Policia Nacional checking documents in various sectors of the City and interior. Edited June 1, 2017 by Admin_01 merging of related topics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheila Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 The time is probably ripe now for snagging vehicles where people are driving after the 3 month time is up on their tourist visas since no more border hopping is allowed to renew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 They are looking for overdue tourists, not unlicensed drivers. However, the two could be coincidental in which case the vehicle may not be the only thing going for a ride to David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Quite a few years ago my neighbor was just off the boat all ready to reside in Panama. He had his Jubilado Visa in hand. He was driving and was stopped. The only documents he had on him were his Jubilado card and his Florida Driver's license. He was less than 2 months in the country on this trip. He DID not have his Passport nor did he have his Panama Driver's license. His car was towed and he was given a citation for driving illegally. It cost him some bucks. If you have a Jubilado Visa you must drive with a Panama License. As well his lawyer told him a multiple entry stamp was not necessary to purchase. OK so he left Panama after filing for Jubilado Visa went to the states to close his affairs there. He returned to Panama and was fined $1200.00 for failure to have a multiple entry stamp on his Passport. He thought he had his ducks in a row...but did not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP87 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Brundageba said: Quite a few years ago my neighbor was just off the boat all ready to reside in Panama. He had his Jubilado Visa in hand. He was driving and was stopped. The only documents he had on him were his Jubilado card and his Florida Driver's license. He was less than 2 months in the country on this trip. He DID not have his Passport nor did he have his Panama Driver's license. His car was towed and he was given a citation for driving illegally. It cost him some bucks. If you have a Jubilado Visa you must drive with a Panama License. As well his lawyer told him a multiple entry stamp was not necessary to purchase. OK so he left Panama after filing for Jubilado Visa went to the states to close his affairs there. He returned to Panama and was fined $1200.00 for failure to have a multiple entry stamp on his Passport. He thought he had his ducks in a row...but did not. I'm not sure how it was a few years ago but I've just filed my papers for residency and on the 6 month provisional card they gave me after filing, it specifically says directly on the back if you leave the country with an application in process without getting a multiple entry visa you will be fine $2000 upon trying to re-enter. Ive found it's always best to do your research on your owe rather than just relying solely on what your lawyer tells you. Things change fast here and not everyone knows everything. Durining my process if I asked 3 different officials the same question, typically I would get three different answers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 You are correct and it's excellent advice to research more than one source. That said, folks new to the country tend to trust their lawyer. Our friend contacted his attorney from the USA after we informed him of the need for a multi entry stamp on his passport. He immediately got on the phone with his lawyer and was told it was not necessary. At that point his visa was still in the works and would have been possible. It's really unfortunate but our friend was in fact fined . This is one of the problems new folks who are still working and closing up affairs in their home country face when they begin process and have to leave, come back & possibly leave again. Having his car impounded was the final blow when he finally got here and was driving in his first couple of months figuring with his Jubilado Visa and a Florida Driver's license he was good to go. These things happen to the best of us....this man was no dummy. He has a PhD. He had good friends that advised him...yet still got stung......twice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP87 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 17 hours ago, Brundageba said: You are correct and it's excellent advice to research more than one source. That said, folks new to the country tend to trust their lawyer. Our friend contacted his attorney from the USA after we informed him of the need for a multi entry stamp on his passport. He immediately got on the phone with his lawyer and was told it was not necessary. At that point his visa was still in the works and would have been possible. It's really unfortunate but our friend was in fact fined . This is one of the problems new folks who are still working and closing up affairs in their home country face when they begin process and have to leave, come back & possibly leave again. Having his car impounded was the final blow when he finally got here and was driving in his first couple of months figuring with his Jubilado Visa and a Florida Driver's license he was good to go. These things happen to the best of us....this man was no dummy. He has a PhD. He had good friends that advised him...yet still got stung......twice. That's unfortunate, like I said take the advise of your lawyer but also do your own research. Luckily my lawyer did advise me right away that once ur status changes to a resident or even a resident "in process" you can no longer drive on a foreign drivers license. There is a special Panamaian license you can apply for if you really need to drive here while waiting for your paperwork to go through, I believe she said the cost was $40. After that once your paperwork has gone through and you have your final Panamaian ID then you can get the regular Panamaian drivers license. I think regardless of the country people should be diligent and do their homework on how everything works. Sounds like in the end things worked out for him too bad he had to learn the hard way. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Agree. Things may not have been as clear 8 years ago however. ( I do not think the temporary drivers license existed at that time.) Whatever... Folks that come from the USA/Canada who engage an immigration attorney would tend to believe their attorney would know and as well advise them. There in is the fallacy. Although I agree with you, I still feel the misled newcomers are the innocents here. It's a learning curve, and sometimes it costs ! This fellow took it on the chin and had a wonderful residency here. Some can not take it on the chin as well..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, SP87 said: once ur status changes to a resident or even a resident "in process" you can no longer drive on a foreign drivers license. A driver has 30 days in which to obtain a Panama D.L. after being granted residency status either temporarily or permanent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Doug Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 6 hours ago, Keith Woolford said: A driver has 30 days in which to obtain a Panama D.L. after being granted residency status either temporarily or permanent. That is true. If you obtain your permanent residency status before actually moving to Panama, that 30 days may very well be over even before you arrive. Drive at your own risk using your passport and hope to hell you can get your drivers license before a policeman does anything more than a cursory inspection at a checkpoint or traffic stop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Yup Uncle, time flies when you are new here and busy getting ducks in a row. It's easy to screw up. Now with the new border hop restrictions folks who plane to live here have to line up the ducks quick. Seems like there is more checking on the highways now than there was 10 yr ago too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoSailors Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 On 5/24/2017 at 2:54 PM, Keith Woolford said: A driver has 30 days in which to obtain a Panama D.L. after being granted residency status either temporarily or permanent. Just checked with our attorney's office, their reply back; "There is no time frame in which one must get a Panama Drivers license either with a Temporary or Permanent Visa." With this additional comment: According to the rules of transit once you are resident in the country with a immigration card you should automatically carry a Panamanian driver's license. So who knows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, TwoSailors said: Just checked with our attorney's office, their reply back; "There is no time frame in which one must get a Panama Drivers license either with a Temporary or Permanent Visa." With this additional comment: According to the rules of transit once you are resident in the country with a immigration card you should automatically carry a Panamanian driver's license. So who knows! I know. This is clear to me. There may be no timeframe in terms of the number of days or hours, but once you obtain temporary or permanent residency, you're required to have a Panamanian license to drive. Assuming that you pick up your visa at Emigracion in the Chiriqui Mall (I don't know what the procedure is at present), you just step next door to Serracin and get that driver's license. If the visa comes from somewhere other than the mall, have someone drive you to Serracin or pray that you won't be stopped in route. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP87 Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 1 hour ago, TwoSailors said: Just checked with our attorney's office, their reply back; "There is no time frame in which one must get a Panama Drivers license either with a Temporary or Permanent Visa." With this additional comment: According to the rules of transit once you are resident in the country with a immigration card you should automatically carry a Panamanian driver's license. So who knows! This is exactly what my lawyer told me as well! Once you have an immigration card you must have a Panamaian driver's license if you want to drive here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bonnie said: I know. This is clear to me. There may be no timeframe in terms of the number of days or hours, but once you obtain temporary or permanent residency, you're required to have a Panamanian license to drive. Assuming that you pick up your visa at Emigracion in the Chiriqui Mall (I don't know what the procedure is at present), you just step next door to Serracin and get that driver's license. If the visa comes from somewhere other than the mall, have someone drive you to Serracin or pray that you won't be stopped in route. It was more difficult a decade ago. Not impossible but many hoops to jump through to get the Panamanian Driver's license, then in Panama City. The procedure was a tad different for foreigners. If you asked a local you ended up running around from office to office and some of them wrong or in the wrong order. Visas came slower then as well. Generally it seems a bit easier now with more information out there for folks in the process of retiring in Panama. If you did not speak Spanish and had a shitty lawyer back then, you could really get all screwed up. Edited May 25, 2017 by Brundageba 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 15 hours ago, SP87 said: This is exactly what my lawyer told me as well! Once you have an immigration card you must have a Panamaian driver's license if you want to drive here. If in doubt, ask a Transit Police at the checkpoint, they will be able to confirm or deny 30 days. I think you're all using the same lawyer, btw. Someone else emailed me as well. M. C. perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Brundageba said: It was more difficult a decade ago. Not impossible but many hoops to jump through to get the Panamanian Driver's license, then in Panama City. The procedure was a tad different for foreigners. If you asked a local you ended up running around from office to office and some of them wrong or in the wrong order. Visas came slower then as well. Generally it seems a bit easier now with more information out there for folks in the process of retiring in Panama. If you did not speak Spanish and had a shitty lawyer back then, you could really get all screwed up. Funny, but I remember it being easier a decade ago. My husband and I got our visa at the old immigration office on, I believe, the Via Rapida in David and our driver's licenses in the Chiriqui Mall. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Uhlman Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Thanks for this discussion. I am not sure I know exactly what to do next (once we arrive), but I have a good idea of the pitfalls. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAndNena Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 13 hours ago, Bonnie said: Funny, but I remember it being easier a decade ago. My husband and I got our visa at the old immigration office on, I believe, the Via Rapida in David and our driver's licenses in the Chiriqui Mall. One factor, and there are many, in dealing with the government is the sometimes complete turnover in government workers soon after every election. It takes each new administration a couple of years to get all the new folks from the winning party to learn the ropes. One bit of advice is never plan the move to Panama soon after the new administration takes office. I remember the reports of folks hoping to get licenses, revisados, etc. just after Varela's victory. Another large ripple occurred when Panama realized that police reports from the USA on future expats were from county sheriff's, city PDs, or other law agencies. When one gets a police report in Panama, it is by default a national police record. So, Panama rightly decided that all future police reports from the USA would be from the national police force, the FBI. Some folks were caught in the middle of their paperwork with having to get fingerprints and requesting an FBI report (causing more delay because I don't believe the FBI was given a heads up by Panama). Then there is the lawyer factor. Some folks had the same lawyer and got varying degrees of satisfaction. I know that there are lawyers who will collect all the paperwork to take to Panama to save the expat the hassle of a trip to the city. I know they charge extra for each client. I know that if they have several clients, they will wait until they have a sufficient number of cases collected before they make the trip. If your paperwork is submitted first, you may wait a month until all the clients have turned in their paperwork, adding a month to your wait time. The last client to submit paperwork gets speedy service and is pleased with the same lawyer's efficiency. One additional point to remember with government services is the multiple "windows" required. Each window has a specific task and requires specific paperwork. One must get through the windows in the correct order to win the prize. And the person at any window can change at any time so as they say, "Variety is the spice of life". jim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siempre Soluciones Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 JimAndNena, You wrote: "One additional point to remember with government services is the multiple "windows" required. Each window has a specific task and requires specific paperwork. One must get through the windows in the correct order to win the prize. And the person at any window can change at any time so as they say, "Variety is the spice of life"." I obtained my permanent residency visa over four years ago, it required two days at immigration (for the Friendly Nations Visa) and if I recall correctly we had to visit at least four windows each day. At that time you could arrive early and obtain the necessary tickets for each window that you needed to visit for the entire day. In fact my attorney asked me to obtain additional tickets for their other clients. With all low number tickets you essentially flew through the process in only a couple of hours. Now I've been told that you're only allowed to obtain a ticket for the next step in your process, no more obtaining all of them early with low numbers. This has drastically increased the time for processing. I have a couple of friends that have stated that they were there from open to close. I couldn't imagine. And on one occasion we forgot to obtain a ticket for a specific window and my attorney asked me for $10 and purchased a low number ticket from someone they knew, I guess there used to be scalpers there! The good ole days! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP87 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 14 hours ago, Keith Woolford said: I think you're all using the same lawyer, btw. Someone else emailed me as well. M. C. perhaps? Doubt it, unless "we all" are in Panama City like I am. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP87 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Siempre Soluciones said: Now I've been told that you're only allowed to obtain a ticket for the next step in your process, no more obtaining all of them early with low numbers. This has drastically increased the time for processing. I have a couple of friends that have stated that they were there from open to close. I couldn't imagine. And on one occasion we forgot to obtain a ticket for a specific window and my attorney asked me for $10 and purchased a low number ticket from someone they knew, I guess there used to be scalpers there! Sounds terrible and very different from my recent experience last week. The day that I had to go with my lawyer she already had a ticket for me once I arrived. On the lower level of the migration building there is a line specifically for lawyers to get tickets for their clients, resulting in a lower ticket number. Saving their clients from the long ticket lines that tend wrap around and down the stairs. Once we finished at the window, I needed to get my photo taken which meant I needed to visit another "window" and for that needed another ticket. So my lawyer went again to the ticket line specifically for lawyers, and got my new window ticket for me. Again saving me from having to stand in the line for people without a lawyer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted May 26, 2017 Author Share Posted May 26, 2017 Persons who are obviously of senior age can go to the front of the ticket line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAndNena Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 I first encountered the "now serving" system in Venezuela in 1983. Cashing a check involved 4 windows. Some folks would get past the first window, get another number, and leave to go shopping. Sometime later (hours), they would return, go to the head of the line for the next window. The lines would all stall waiting for someone's ticket who was shopping, having lunch, whatever. Most places that have lines/tickets also have runners who, for a few bucks, will bypass the ticket system and you are out the door in minutes. Nena's last cedula renewal took 20 minutes and the place was packed. The police used to offer the same service to avoid a day in traffic court but someone claimed it was bribery so the service was mostly discontinued. jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 18 hours ago, Bonnie said: Funny, but I remember it being easier a decade ago. My husband and I got our visa at the old immigration office on, I believe, the Via Rapida in David and our driver's licenses in the Chiriqui Mall. Drivers license. Remember how many offices each in a different location in Panama City? Brutal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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