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This proposal, imo, is being put forth by a couple of opposition Deputies who seek to gain attention by appealing to anti-immigration sentiment which is directed towards Venezuelans and Colombians who are perceived as having overstayed their welcome and stealing jobs from Panamanians. It is not likely to become law. Coming from the south, they enter Panama by air, usually at Tocumen.

The statement made by one of the two Deputies claiming that immigration is uncontrolled and there are over 1,000,000 foreigners in the country seems absurd.

 

Edited by Keith Woolford
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Well people.  As I have posted in the Boquete News Facebook page we should clearly know what is really going on.  What is really the genesis of the problem and what is the main intention of some people regarding a new immigration law.  I understand that Diputada Zulay Rodriguez is very passionate on her speech, that she is a 100% politic and her speech is also totally political but knowing the REAL FACTS will make you understand whats is the problem and what is the objective of a new law.  I have to say that I am not a supporter of Zulay Rodriguez and the party she represents.  I am not agree on some of her daily rants at the National Assembly.

Some people says it is a law against tourist.   FALSE.  Some people forget the definition of what a tourist really is:   someone who visits a place for pleasure and interest, usually while on holiday for a limited period of time.   

It is a secret well known that Panama is receiving a huge influx of foreign people coming from two South American countries and one of them have serious political problems and also big economical problems.  Those people come to Panama as TOURIST but remains in the country as illegal aliens.  

Some people says it is a law against foreign residents.  FALSE.  All foreign residents in Panama that have done all their immigration paperwork correctly and have a legal resident status and show proudly their ID CARD, Visa or Cedula are protected by our laws and constitution and could enjoy freely and without problems all the benefits this country offers to all citizens and legal residents.

It is a pretended aw to regulate the uncontrolled and probably corrupt situation at MIGRACION offices by allowing to much people, specially from those two countries, enter Panama and stay here without doing any paperwork to legalize their immigration status.   It is not a tourist problem it is an immigrant problem.  Some of those immigrants that are entering the country came with not enough economical means to be a tourist.  They came Panama to look for new opportunities, to start a new life in a country that has to offer more than what they can get in their country of origin.  But Panama is a small country with barely 4 million people.  Panama has a lot of problems yet unsolved in areas like health, education, housing, infrastructure, etc and those problems are being aggravated because those foreigns people are now a heavy burden for the system.  They are not helping our economy.  They could be causing in short, medium and long terms problems in the country.  Government agencies dont provide the exact number of foreign people in the country with this irregular situation probably because they wont like people to know what exactly is the size of the problem.  

Some people says:  Border hoping is not illegal.  That is correct.  It is not illegal.  It is not considered in the actual law as an illegal act.  It is a hole in the law that some people took advantage of it without any problem.  Something could be legal but not necessarily is right.  It is not illegal to do that but according to the normal procedure people should legalize their status to remain in the country as legal residents and not as "eternal tourist".   Here I stress again the real meaning of TOURIST versus RESIDENT.

Regarding how a law is proposed and done.  Zulay Rodriguez is proposing a new law to modify the current immigration laws in Panama.  She must submit it to the National Assembly to be considered for discussion.  If approved to be discussed it will have to pass three debates.  On each debates the other Diputados of the National Assembly will discuss the law and ask for advice to the groups, government officer, etc about each article of the law.  Even if the law is in its third and last debate, if there is one or more polemical articles of the law that did not have the consensus of all other diputados they could return this law to a first debate again.  The main objetive of those debates is to make corrections to those polemic articles and rewrite the accordingly to the law and constitution of Panama.  When the law passes the three debates it is sent to the President of the Republic and he could approve it or veto it and return it back to the National Assembly.  

So there is no need to fear.  This particular situation has its genesis because the exagerate influx of South American immigrants that came to Panama and are wandering in the streets looking for job and others recently involved in criminal cases.  Legal residents have your cold beer and watch the news quietly and with a big smile.  Do not put attention to those people who present this news with the intention to scare a population of legal foreign residents and real tourist.  

fear-300x300.jpg

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3 hours ago, Hil said:

Doug it would be easy to calculate this figure based on proof of life time income of $1000 per month required to get a Pensionado. The other visas have different requirements. That would be the baseline. I've heard there are over 50,000 (rumor) Pensionados in Panama. I'm guessing there is no way to understand the other  money spent here by foreign pensionados. Renters, owning a home, visiting, and tourist here provide a good chunk of money but it wouldn't bankrupt Panama if most of it left. I rarely use the Jubilado discount except for expensive items. The last administration and this one welcomes outsider's money. They aren't stupid!!! Anyone that thinks they can figure out what a Panamanian can or will do ahead of time (especially a politician here)---- I suggest you bottle and sell this information!!!! Glad I got my residency. Change is coming on immigration (i'm not rubbing my crystal ball this morning.)

If I'm reading you correctly, you're suggesting that all or most pensionados are living on social security or other income of $1000 a month. I would guess that most have a significantly higher annual income. And many in both groups bought property or made other significant investments when they came to Panama.

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Regarding some complains of foreign nationals in their working age in Panama is the fact that some business owner are taking advantages of their legal situation in Panama.  Panama has the highest minimum wage of Latin America.  Panama has a social security program that the worker and the employer has to pay.  It cost to the employer about 30% of the wage paid to the worker.  If you pay a worker a salary of $1,000 a business have to pay about $300 in social security, professional risks, etc.  

For some business owners a local panamanian or legal resident with working permit are "expensive" in comparison to hiring an illegal immigrant.  First they take advantage of the precarious and difficult situation of that immigrant.  This poor people will accept any job to get at least a few pennies to live.  So they are not earning the same wage or salary as a local or legal resident.  The second thing is that the employer dont pay them the social security they have to for those employees.  So those workers are not medically covered and are not paying taxes in the country.  Those people are working as slaves.  

I visited a couple of months ago a Centro de Salud close to my house in Panama City and I was surprised to see that about 50% of the people looking for medical attention were foreign people.  They were not denied the medical attention, specially in a FLU time.  

Some people are aware and agreed that we like tourist in Panama.  We want and need foreign investors,  We like legal residents in Panama.  We have been always an immigrant country but... when things go out of control we should do something to regulate the amount of people staying in the country illegaly

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21 minutes ago, Roger B said:

fear-300x300.jpg

Approximately two years ago, I wrote about Diputada Rodriguez, her outrageous comments, and her previous failed Immigration reform bill.

Quote

It seems that it is one rather xenophobic PRD member, Zulay Rodriguez, who is determined to see Immigration reforms, Ley No.62, that would eliminate the Crisol de Razas Immigration fairs.Despite her rantings, the bill was sent back to the National Assembly for First Debate again.

http://www.panamaamerica.com.pa/nacion/diputada-insistira-en-la-eli...

Ms.Rodriguez had to publicly apologize yesterday for calling Colombians 'lowlifes and criminals' in the legislature.

http://www.prensa.com/in_english/Zulay-Rodriguez-colombians-Panama_...

The new Minister of Security, Rodolfo Aguilera, gave a report demonstrating that in fact, there have been very few criminal acts committed by immigrants who participated in the Immigration Fairs. In fact, the number of criminal acts committed by expats is much higher among those who obtained residency under other programs.

http://www.panamaamerica.com.pa/nacion/aguilera-defiende-crisol-de-...

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Regarding CRISOL DE RAZAS IMMIGRATION FAIR

This was an activity that the last government had in order to regulate what they knew was an uncontrolled amount of illegal foreign people living in Panama.  The original idea was good and it was supposed to screen those foreign people who really deserved and needed to stay in Panama.  In some part of the road the idea degenerate at it became a business and they included in the program a lot of people beyond the needs and wants of the country and economy.

It was a good idea that was damaged at the end.

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On 1/8/2017 at 11:01 AM, Keith Woolford said:

Approximately two years ago, I wrote about Diputada Rodriguez, her outrageous comments, and her previous failed Immigration reform bill.

Keith

So you have to know that she is a 100% full time politician.  WE all know what politicians do in order to look for getting attention and popular support.  She is thinking more in 2019 and is looking for any argument that could give her some advantage and possible voters.  

People in Panama, Specially the middle class professionals clearly understand what the real problem is.  We also understand that the problem is not foreign nationals and they do not support xenophobic acts or rants.  I have heard several diputados at the National Assembly talking trash but we know that, thanks god, a lot of their law proposals wont pass or if they go through it will receive severe changes very different the way the proposer of the law wanted to.

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3 minutes ago, Roger B said:

Keith

So you have to know that she is a 100% full time politician.  WE all know what politicians do in order to look for getting attention and popular support.  She is thinking more in 2019 and is looking for any argument that could give her some advantage and possible voters.  

People in Panama, Specially the middle class professionals clearly understand what the real problem is.  We also understand that the problem is not foreign nationals and they do not support xenophobic acts or rants.  I have heard several diputados at the National Assembly talking trash but we know that, thanks god, a lot of their law proposals wont pass or if they go through it will receive severe changes very different the way the proposer of the law wanted to.

Understood, Roger, and thanks for the input.

The last time the Diputada rabble-roused over this issue in 2014 even the Chamber of Commerce was embarrassed.

The Chamber of Commerce has issued a video calling for an end to attacks on foreigners on social networks. Chamber President José Luis Ford issued a video where he called for citizens to have respect for foreigners who come to Panama and who live in peace and with respect to national laws. "Those who come to Panama generally comply with the law and make this country theirs, because their country of origin did not give them opportunities. Many of them have contributed immensely to the development of Panama," Ford said. He also noted that most Panamanians can trace their lineage to a foreign country. "We come from a melting pot of races. And people do not want to come to a country where there are classes that express hate toward foreigners," he said. He said that Panama seeks to maintain its reputation as being open to the world. "It is important that those who come, who comply with our laws, are greeted with an attitude without arrogance," he said.

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On 1/8/2017 at 11:23 AM, Keith Woolford said:

Understood, Roger, and thanks for the input.

The last time the Diputada rabble-roused over this issue in 2014 even the Chamber of Commerce was embarrassed.

The Chamber of Commerce has issued a video calling for an end to attacks on foreigners on social networks. Chamber President José Luis Ford issued a video where he called for citizens to have respect for foreigners who come to Panama and who live in peace and with respect to national laws. "Those who come to Panama generally comply with the law and make this country theirs, because their country of origin did not give them opportunities. Many of them have contributed immensely to the development of Panama," Ford said. He also noted that most Panamanians can trace their lineage to a foreign country. "We come from a melting pot of races. And people do not want to come to a country where there are classes that express hate toward foreigners," he said. He said that Panama seeks to maintain its reputation as being open to the world. "It is important that those who come, who comply with our laws, are greeted with an attitude without arrogance," he said.

Keith

It is correct.  Most of the Panamanians can trace their lineage to a foreign country.  I know a lot of people who are descendant of Spanish, Italians, and a lot, really a lot of North Americans.  Former president Martinelli lineage is from Italy.  President Varela lineage is from Spain and we got thousands of examples.  So that is why I say that there is not need to fear.  Probably there will be some changes but not so drastics as Zulay would like to.  

We got a lot of laws.  The solution is just to enforce it and that's it.  No need for new laws.

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4 hours ago, Hil said:

no. it implies minimum requirements for pensionado. "baseline" doesn Not imply other income or property owned.

Then it is not anywhere near an accurate reflection of "how much they respectively contribute to the economy."  This is the information that Doug is seeking, but I don't think he will find it.

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Agree...you can't find stats...BUT you can step back and look at the cities where foreign residents reside in numbers and see how many charitable foundations, buildings,, activities  and functions there are that enrich the community in general; then you can compare to that of other cities.   It's fairly obvious.  Foreign residents generally contribute to the well-being of the community in general.  Feeding the poor, assistance to the handicapped, public library, volunteer labor to enhance school environments, contributions to the fire department, police and ambulance....there's a long list here in Boquete that has been provided by foreign resident.

If you were to read the history of Boquete from it's roots, you would find that foreign contributions physically and intellectually were part and parcel of Boquete's advancement from the time of the completion of the Canal. 

Read: "Boquete, Rasgos de su History" by Milagros Sanchez Pinzon.  

Edited by Brundageba
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Well it would seem that Varela is trying to appease the masses by reducing the tourist stay from 180 to 90 days.  This will probably not affect anyone here illegally only those who make border hops to say legal.  So in the end, more money will be spent in Costa Rica rather than Panama.

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I hope the authorities rethink their position. There are well over 100,000 Panamanians that are in the US with more liberal stay times. If the US decides to reciprocate like Brasil on visa issues, it will not bode well for them.

Also the most populous countries in the western hemisphere don't require attorneys for residency, and they issue 6 mo tourist visas.

I see a lot of tunnel vision here.

Furthermore I commonly see glib comments about deportation of non compliers. Panama simply doesn't have the budget for it.

I also hope someone in the Panama government sees this post, but doubt they will be able to shake the attorneys loose from their self serving positions regarding their role in this process,

Edited by Pantah
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I am wondering with the change of the tourist visas now given for 3 months instead of 6, I'm wondering when I'll need to exit? I entered Panama on December 28th 2016 (before this change was announced) will I still get my 6 months or will I have to exit in 3 month? 

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9 minutes ago, SP87 said:

I am wondering with the change of the tourist visas now given for 3 months instead of 6, I'm wondering when I'll need to exit? I entered Panama on December 28th 2016 (before this change was announced) will I still get my 6 months or will I have to exit in 3 month? 

You should be allowed 180 days (not 6 months) from your entry on December 28th, as the Decree did not take effect until published in LaGaceta on January 10th.

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I just heard on a news interview on TVN, that this 90 day change is actually only for countries who require a visa to enter Panama. And that countries such as Canada and US still get their 180 days. Boy this is confusing. 

Edited by SP87
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  • 2 months later...

Panama Hardens Policies to Prevent Irregular Migration

AFP

| 16 mar 2017 08.17pm

Foreigners living in Panama as tourists must leave the country for a month if they want to reenter Panamanian territory, in addition to other restrictions on immigration, announced on Thursday the director of Migration, Javier Carrillo.

The new measure applies to foreigners who reside in the country as tourists, who when carrying more than five months, should leave Panama for at least a month If thhey want to re-enter, explained the official.

"This is for those who have more than five months in the country as tourists and leaving for nothing more than to return to re- enter. Now you have to be 30 days outside the country," said Carrillo to AFP.

Panamanian law provides that foreigners with tourist visa have a limit of six months of continued stay in the country.

But once that term is drawing to an end, many cross to Costa Rica with the objective that in their passports the exit stamp of Panama and return to Panamanian territory.

"The difference now is that if you come out with six months will not be permitted entry because people must go regularize status, nobody can be a tourist permanently," said Carrillo.

According to the official this measure does not affect tourists who spent a short period of time in the country and re-enter at a later date.

Data from the National Migration Service of Panama indicate that since 2010 there have been more than 100,000 requests for residence in the country, mainly of Venezuelans, Colombians, Spaniards, Estadosunidenses and Dominicans.

A high economic growth close to 5%, a dollarized economy, climate and a relative social peace have made Panama attractive to workers and retirees from other countries.

The measure is in addition to another taken at the beginning of the year when Panama eliminated the possibility of entry to foreigners with visas in the European Union.

With this, Panama was intended to prevent citizens from more than 50 countries to which restricts the entry, such as Cuba, China, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Syria, Somalia, Nigeria and Algeria, take advantage of a European visa to enter.

"They are nationalities that had a restricted type of visa in Panama and to continue with that process what we have done is to revise the policy toward these countries," said the Minister of Safety and Security, Alexis Bethancourt.

Carrillo ruled out that the immigration policy of Panama has any relation with the plans of the president of the United States, Donald Trump, to limit the arrival of migrants to that country from Central America.

http://www.telemetro.com/nacionales/Panama-endurece-politicas-migracion-irregular_0_1008500192.html

Edited by Keith Woolford
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