Panama's Policies on Immigration and Migration

[JimAndNena]

52 minutes ago, Bonnie said:

Yes, but it's still not clear when one has to leave, at what point he has overstayed.

The tourist visa is still good for 180 days. The difference now is that if the border official sees a previous visa stamp for 180 days the odds are he will deny entry to Panama for 30 days.  What is interesting is that I see no mention of the 90 day hoppers for driving privileges. 

jim

[Roger B]

41 minutes ago, MarieElaine said:

My understanding is you have to stay out of the country for 6 months to get another 6 months as a tourist.  Wrong?

AS I have been posted recently on comments done by the Director of Servicios Naciones de Migracion you should stay out of Panama at least 30 days and return back.  

[Bonnie]

58 minutes ago, JimAndNena said:

The tourist visa is still good for 180 days. The difference now is that if the border official sees a previous visa stamp for 180 days the odds are he will deny entry to Panama for 30 days.  What is interesting is that I see no mention of the 90 day hoppers for driving privileges. 

jim

From the Embassy's message:

Tourists are only allowed to drive in Panama for 90 days.  Is there an exception for this given that tourists are allowed to stay in Panama for 180 days?

 

Answer: According to the Transit authority (http://www.transito.gob.pa/sites/default/files/reglamento_decreto_640..pdf Artículo 110) foreigners that enter Panama as tourists are not permitted to obtain Panamanian drivers’ licenses and are only allowed to drive with a foreign license for 90 days.  There are no exceptions to this rule.

[Uncle Doug]

The drivers license matter must be viewed separately from  the visa issue, because that's the way Panama views it.  You may legally drive in Panama for 90 days after your last entry stamp on your passport.  They don't care that it doesn't align with the 180 day tourist visa.

So, as it stands, you can still renew your driving privileges by "border hopping" every 90 days.  The problem, of course, is this action previously reset the tourist visa which is under great scrutiny at this moment.  The current guidance is that exiting with less than 30 days remaining on the 180 day tourist visa will require an absence of at least 30 days before entering Panama again.  There is no guidance (that I know of) that indicates what will happen if you do a "border hop" with far more than 30 days remaining on the tourist visa.

I don't think it's safe to assume that everything will be fine. You might be able to reset driving privileges one time for an additional 90 days, but Immigration is looking to see if there is evidence that you may not really be a tourist.  So, while they are separate issues, they certainly do intersect at the port of entry into Panama. 

[TwoSailors]

It's all confusing! Probably to them as well!

[MarieElaine]

Thanks for clarification.  30 days and back.

[Ray M]

8 hours ago, Bonnie said:

Yes, but it's still not clear when one has to leave, at what point he has overstayed.

6 months should be 180 days. I'm always amazed why this can't be more specific. Problems occur when the issue isn't meticulously addressed in the first place. It's not 'at the end of 5 months', it's when you're on your 180st day. Or the law should indicate that on your 150st day in the country you have to leave for 30 days, so that during a span of 180 days you won't be considered a 'permanent tourist'. Clarity please :-)

[Bonnie]

57 minutes ago, Ray M said:

6 months should be 180 days. I'm always amazed why this can't be more specific. Problems occur when the issue isn't meticulously addressed in the first place. It's not 'at the end of 5 months', it's when you're on your 180st day. Or the law should indicate that on your 150st day in the country you have to leave for 30 days, so that during a span of 180 days you won't be considered a 'permanent tourist'. Clarity please :-)

I agree, Ray, that it's unclear. I have sought clarification via the Embassy but haven't heard back. I will share whatever answer they provide.

[Moderator_02]

In trying to get a more global and less emotional view of the migrant and visa situation in Panama, I did a bit of research. Here are two documents produced by the United Nations regarding Panama's status regarding immigration. See the last section in these tables, which are labeled "International migration", and reflect statistics as of 2011 and again as of 2013. The source URL links are also provided below each.

Nothing jumps out to me as particularly troublesome, undesirable, or unacceptable. I do note "major concern" about irregular migration.

http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/publications/pdf/policy/WPP2011/Country_Profiles/Panama_Policy.pdf

 

http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/publications/pdf/policy/WPP2013/Country_Profiles/Panama_Policy.pdf

[SP87]

Yes I too would love some clarification. 

Is it if you exit on or before your "5 month" here the 30 days out of Panama rule doesn't apply and essentially you could return in a few days or a week even? But if you stay the complete 180 days "6 months", that is when you must be out for 30 days before returning? 

Or is it: if you make it to your "5th month" you must be out for 30 days, and if you make it to your "6 month" (180 days) you cannot return at all? 

I wish they could make things clear the first time. 

[Rooikop]

just for everyone's information .I was at day 85 of a 180 day visa.I was denied entry .michelle was in her 5 month of the 6 month visa .denied entry.she was denied because she was with me.they did not look at her visa or passport .only because she was my wife ,was she denied.so is that a new visa rule as well.

[Uncle Doug]

5 minutes ago, Rooikop said:

just for everyone's information .I was at day 85 of a 180 day visa.I was denied entry .michelle was in her 5 month of the 6 month visa .denied entry.she was denied because she was with me.they did not look at her visa or passport .only because she was my wife ,was she denied.so is that a new visa rule as well.

It looks as if the officials made an initial determination that you were a "perpetual tourist", and then applied that to everyone traveling with you, including your daughter who is undeniably a tourist visiting you for just a short time in Panama. Eventually the authorities relented as to her and her friend, but they are certainly casting a very wide net at the border.

[Moderator_02]

Quote

Panama Deported 170 Foreigners In First Two Months Of The Year

Today News March 17, 2017

1 min read with No Comments so far

Panama News

re

Foreigners deported from Panama. Photo Newsroom Panama

TODAY PANAMA – Panama’s immigration service reports having deported or expelled in the first two months of the year, a total of 170 foreigners, mostly Colombians, for being in the country undocumented.

Of the the total, 106 were deported and 64 expelled: 137 were men and 33 women, said a statement by the Servicio Nacional de Migración de Panamá (SNM) – Panama’s immigration service.

Colombians lead the list with 45 deportations and explusions; Followed by Cubans, 23; Ecuadorians and Dominicans, 15 each; Venezuelans, 14; Chinese, 13; Nicaraguans, 11; and of other nationalities, 34.

The SMM explains deportations or expulsions, as the case may be, may occur among other things due to behavior that violates morality, entering the country illegally, working without a work permit, to be undocumented or irregular (overstaying a tourist visa, for example) and to be a threat to collective security, according to official information.

 

http://todaypanama.com/panama-deported-170-foreigners-in-first-two-months-of-the-year/

[MarieElaine]

I wonder how many of these were retirees.

[Uncle Doug]

1 hour ago, Moderator_02 said:

The SMM explains deportations or expulsions, as the case may be, may occur among other things due to behavior that violates morality, entering the country illegally, working without a work permit, to be undocumented or irregular (overstaying a tourist visa, for example) and to be a threat to collective security, according to official information.

That's interesting.  The SMM is keeping separate statistics for "deportations" and "expulsions."  I will speculate that deportations are the physical removal of persons who never had any type of legal permission to enter the country, and expulsions is the removal of people who entered legally, but are no longer in compliance with the terms of their visa.

I think there may be yet another category -- people are denied re-entry at the border or at Tocumen.  I doubt those numbers are captured in this SMM report.

[Bonnie]

I wonder how long it is going to take for this to shake out. I was hoping we could get more clarification from SMM. As one of two U.S. Wardens in Boquete, I am getting a lot of questions and feel badly that I have no answers.

For folks who are not already here but are interested in relocating to Boquete, my advice is to make several vacation trips to test the waters. The conventional wisdom of renting for six months to a year before deciding whether to apply for residency is no longer feasible.

Once the decision is made to come, begin work on your visa before leaving the U.S. (or whatever country you're from). I am assuming until told otherwise that a temporary visa will not be issued until all the paperwork is done and submitted to the government, which can take months depending on your circumstances. It also is easier to get U.S. documentation that will be needed while you are in the U.S.

[JohnF13]

Bonnie,

Not sure I agree with you.  Before coming here we did everything the Panamanian govt. wanted through a lawyer in Panama City.  After out arrival we had our one year temporary pensionado card within three days.  The permanent one arrive well before the expiry of the temporary card.  So, it can be done, it just takes money (in our case around $3k for the both of us) and attention to detail.

[Keith Woolford]

Personally, I'm hard pressed to think of any more than a dozen folks at most, here in Boquete who are affected by this change in P.T. policy.

Not saying there aren't far more, of course, but I have met a lot of current residents.

[Bonnie]

44 minutes ago, JohnF13 said:

Bonnie,

Not sure I agree with you.  Before coming here we did everything the Panamanian govt. wanted through a lawyer in Panama City.  After out arrival we had our one year temporary pensionado card within three days.  The permanent one arrive well before the expiry of the temporary card.  So, it can be done, it just takes money (in our case around $3k for the both of us) and attention to detail.

Actually, you are agreeing with me. The key was that all your paperwork was done ahead of time. It was submitted through your lawyer and you got your temporary visa shortly after your arrival in Panama. Had you not done the paperwork before leaving the States, how much time might it have taken? It easily could have stretched beyond 90 days and left you without a driver's license. For others who have experienced particular problems like unreadable fingerprints, it has taken more than 180 days.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Bonnie

[Bonnie]

On 3/19/2017 at 1:44 PM, MarieElaine said:

Thanks for clarification.  30 days and back.

Not necessarily, Marie. There are some indications that if you have other 180-day stamps on your passport, you cannot return as a tourist even after the 30 days out. This, above all else, needs to be clarified.

[Keith Woolford]

Obviously I'm no expert but I think Marie's best option would be to explore the Regularization process.

 

[Brundageba]

6 hours ago, Bonnie said:

I wonder how long it is going to take for this to shake out. I was hoping we could get more clarification from SMM. As one of two U.S. Wardens in Boquete, I am getting a lot of questions and feel badly that I have no answers.

For folks who are not already here but are interested in relocating to Boquete, my advice is to make several vacation trips to test the waters. The conventional wisdom of renting for six months to a year before deciding whether to apply for residency is no longer feasible.

Once the decision is made to come, begin work on your visa before leaving the U.S. (or whatever country you're from). I am assuming until told otherwise that a temporary visa will not be issued until all the paperwork is done and submitted to the government, which can take months depending on your circumstances. It also is easier to get U.S. documentation that will be needed while you are in the U.S.

We had an appointment with an attorney on our first scout visit.  When we went  back home the attorney sent us the forms and necessary docs needed which we completed and FedEx'd back to the attorney.  The process was then begun while we were still in the USA.  That helped as the wheels seemed to turn slower 10 years ago.  It was fast for us as we lived close to the state capital where we lived in the USA.  Apostile docs got done faster because we could hand deliver and pick up. .  FBI fingerprints were not done then.

I think if a person visits and has strong inclination that they would enjoy living here, to begin residency process early is not a bad idea.  The money it costs is worth the peace of mind .  We did not have to pay the full amount to the lawyer until the process was complete.  Meanwhile the individual will have a doc to present to authorities here that process for residency has begun.

I was told today that the government is enlarging it's interdiction force.  I would assume that would mean more checking here and there.

[Brundageba]

1 hour ago, Keith Woolford said:

Personally, I'm hard pressed to think of any more than a dozen folks at most, here in Boquete who are affected by this change in P.T. policy.

Not saying there aren't far more, of course, but I have met a lot of current residents.

There are large numbers of illegals working in coastal tourist areas that are in remote locations.  These are young folk who have no more than a backpack and some beach gear. They are low salaried and given room and board.  Some have been resident a long time and now have a car a dog  and  a beach business.  One hop and they are not going to re-enter leaving the car,dog and gear .  Locals are not crying about it.  They are.

[Brundageba]

25 minutes ago, Brundageba said:

There are large numbers of illegals working in coastal tourist areas that are in remote locations.  These are young folk who have no more than a backpack and some beach gear. They are low salaried and given room and board.  Some have been resident a long time and now have a car a dog  and  a beach business.  One hop and they are not going to re-enter leaving the car,dog and gear .  Locals are not crying about it.  They are.

To clarify: they were not illegal in that they were getting the visa renewals of their tourist visas...yet actually resident and working.  NOW they are illegal I guess.

[Uncle Doug]

7 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

Personally, I'm hard pressed to think of any more than a dozen folks at most, here in Boquete who are affected by this change in P.T. policy.

Not saying there aren't far more, of course, but I have met a lot of current residents.

I'm not sure what to make of that. I don't think anyone will dispute that you know a huge number of ex-pats in the area, and probably know a lot about others you haven't actually met. We do know there is an immigration policy change regarding the "border hopping" practice.  Panama has said so.

Many people have been asking specific questions about the mechanics of it for years on local forums in recent years.  Many other people have been offering specific answers.  I don't know any of those people (assuming they used real names), but I can't think of any reason for them to have been fabricating the experience.

We have seen a couple of reports of several vehicles being impounded in recent day at the Caldera police checkpoint. If true, it's hard to imagine it was the result of expired license plates.  I see far too many 2014 plates on cars around here.

People can get caught up in a hysteria about perceived events. Perhaps many people are worried and writing about something less than it might actually be.   After 9/11 in the USA, there was scary "poison powder" everywhere, and last year scary circus clowns were terrorizing towns across that nation, although no clown was ever found, much less arrested.

Your observation is very relevant.  My completely uninformed guess is/was that this possibly affected several hundred people in the Boquete area. 

Edited March 25, 2017 by Uncle Doug