Jubilado Discounts at Restaurants - Descuento de Jubilados en Restaurantes

[Panama Bill]

2 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

I agree wholeheartedly, Bonnie.

There was a very good interview with the spokesman of the Tribuna de Consumidor about Jubilado discounts and benefits on Telemetro last week. I did not post the video because it was in Spanish but here it is.

http://www.telemetro.com/nacionales/tribuna_del_consumidor/Tribuna-Consumidor-beneficios-jubilados-pensionados_3_1008529197.html

By the way, the spokesman clearly stated that if a 'special' is being offered, the Jubilado has the option of the 'special' at it's promotional price, or a discount on a regular menu item, but not a discount on the 'special'.

He also mentioned the inclusion of extranjeros who are residents.

A small explanation here about the "special". The "special" refers to a menu item which is being offered at a discount, so there's no jubilado discount because the item is already discounted. However, the jubilado has the option of paying the special price, or applying the jubilado discount to the regular price of the item and then selecting the one which offers him/her the best price.

[Keith Woolford]

Excellent interpretation but I'm not sure that a 'special' at a restaurant has to be a regular menu item.

For example when one of the local Panamanian businesses such as Panamonte, Sabor or El Oasis have a 'special' they generally advertise "no discounts".

Edited March 28, 2017 by Keith Woolford

[Pat]

10 hours ago, Bonnie said:

I think I have a different perspective on this than most everyone else does. When the law was adopted, it was envisioned to help elderly Panamanians at a time when there were mainly tipico restaurants. The cost of food and other overhead at tipicos is not as high as it is at fancier restaurants that offer a wider variety of food and a more upscale environment. As most restaurants operate on slim margins particularly in the beginning before they build up a clientele, many go out of business, as we have seen. I would rather forgo the discount and keep the restaurants in business. Secondly, I think it's unbecoming for those of us who by Panamanian standards have so much to be bickering over a few dollars. If a restaurant offers the jubilado discount, I take it. But I never make an issue of it. It may be the law, but the law was not intended for expats, and we look like small, greedy people when we insist on the restaurant discount of a few dollars or less. I feel the same about small B&Bs and similar mom and pop establishments.

I see this kind of discount issue as being wholly different from the plane and hotel discounts that involve real money and wealthy corporations.

Bonnie, I resent your calling me "small and greedy" just because I expect restaurant owners to follow the law. "A few dollars or less" is not the issue here. The objective is whether or not the Panamanian law is being followed.

It is your business if you do not request, expect. or want a Jubilado discount, but don't blame me for "bickering" and being "unbecoming" because you think I have so much more.

Your opinion is yours, but judgmental is the only correct description.

[Bonnie]

 

1 hour ago, Pat said:

Bonnie, I resent your calling me "small and greedy" just because I expect restaurant owners to follow the law. "A few dollars or less" is not the issue here. The objective is whether or not the Panamanian law is being followed.

It is your business if you do not request, expect. or want a Jubilado discount, but don't blame me for "bickering" and being "unbecoming" because you think I have so much more.

Your opinion is yours, but judgmental is the only correct description.

There is nothing in my post that is a personal attack on you.

[Pat]

34 minutes ago, Bonnie said:

There is nothing in my post that is a personal attack on you.

Your post is not attacking me by name, but you certainly are attacking the group in which I and many others here who expect the discount law to be followed by business owners.

[Bonnie]

I am "attacking" no one, Pat. I stated my opinion and gave my reasons. We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[BD]

On 3/28/2017 at 10:26 AM, Bonnie said:

I think I have a different perspective on this than most everyone else does. When the law was adopted, it was envisioned to help elderly Panamanians at a time when there were mainly tipico restaurants. The cost of food and other overhead at tipicos is not as high as it is at fancier restaurants that offer a wider variety of food and a more upscale environment. As most restaurants operate on slim margins particularly in the beginning before they build up a clientele, many go out of business, as we have seen. I would rather forgo the discount and keep the restaurants in business. Secondly, I think it's unbecoming for those of us who by Panamanian standards have so much to be bickering over a few dollars. If a restaurant offers the jubilado discount, I take it. But I never make an issue of it. It may be the law, but the law was not intended for expats, and we look like small, greedy people when we insist on the restaurant discount of a few dollars or less. I feel the same about small B&Bs and similar mom and pop establishments.

I see this kind of discount issue as being wholly different from the plane and hotel discounts that involve real money and wealthy corporations.

Gotta disagree with ya. People don't get to pick which laws apply to them. If you do believe that then you are above the law. Only courts get to decide when and to what degree a law applies or doesn't apply in a specific case of where there is a claimed violation. I thought you were the warden here. Seems like you should have that concept down pat.

The next time I get stopped for speeding, my response will be that the warden told me that the law doesn't apply to rich gringos. That will go over big time. After they stop laughing, then I still get to pay the ticket.

[BD]

On 3/28/2017 at 10:26 AM, Bonnie said:

I think I have a different perspective on this than most everyone else does. When the law was adopted, it was envisioned to help elderly Panamanians at a time when there were mainly tipico restaurants. The cost of food and other overhead at tipicos is not as high as it is at fancier restaurants that offer a wider variety of food and a more upscale environment. As most restaurants operate on slim margins particularly in the beginning before they build up a clientele, many go out of business, as we have seen. I would rather forgo the discount and keep the restaurants in business. Secondly, I think it's unbecoming for those of us who by Panamanian standards have so much to be bickering over a few dollars. If a restaurant offers the jubilado discount, I take it. But I never make an issue of it. It may be the law, but the law was not intended for expats, and we look like small, greedy people when we insist on the restaurant discount of a few dollars or less. I feel the same about small B&Bs and similar mom and pop establishments.

I see this kind of discount issue as being wholly different from the plane and hotel discounts that involve real money and wealthy corporations.

Maybe I having a bad day or need to adjust my meds. Am I using play money when I pay the bill at a restaurante? It looks and feels like real money to me.

[Bonnie]

6 hours ago, BD said:

Gotta disagree with ya. People don't get to pick which laws apply to them. If you do believe that then you are above the law. Only courts get to decide when and to what degree a law applies or doesn't apply in a specific case of where there is a claimed violation. I thought you were the warden here. Seems like you should have that concept down pat.

The next time I get stopped for speeding, my response will be that the warden told me that the law doesn't apply to rich gringos. That will go over big time. After they stop laughing, then I still get to pay the ticket.

The law applies to the business owner, not the customer. No one violates any law by refusing to demand a discount. (What would be the penalty for doing so?)

[Penny]

14 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

Excellent interpretation but I'm not sure that a 'special' at a restaurant has to be a regular menu item.

For example when one of the local Panamanian businesses such as Panamonte, Sabor or El Oasis have a 'special' they generally advertise "no discounts".

This is a game played by several restaurants. They make a lot of one menu item, put it on the chalk board as a "SPECIAL" at the regular price and then feel justified in not giving the discount. Chef Craig from Ruinas and most recently from Seasons was good at this ploy. I got soured on Seasons when I ordered their special rib dinner which wasn't on the menu but I was believing it couldn't be much more than the Rock charged for a rib dinner. Well, it turned out to be $29 and no discount was allowed.

[BlueBird]

I am new to Boquete and I'm confused about this discount discussion. Why would a restaurant play games with their menu pricing? And why wouldn't a restaurant allow a discount? Don't they have to follow the law? Which restaurants should I avoid?

[Keith Woolford]

6 hours ago, BlueBird said:

I am new to Boquete and I'm confused about this discount discussion. Why would a restaurant play games with their menu pricing? And why wouldn't a restaurant allow a discount? Don't they have to follow the law? Which restaurants should I avoid?

Best go back to the O.P.

[JimAndNena]

The locals who live in Boquete feel that many gringos want to live like gringos but on a Panamanian budget.

The businesses that cater to gringo tastes want to charge gringo prices without the lawful Panamanian discount being applied and those businesses can be very creative when denying the discount.

This is not my opinion; it is based on discussions with Panamanians who have lived in Boquete for decades.  I mostly agree with their views.

jim

[BlueBird]

6 hours ago, Penny said:

This is a game played by several restaurants. They make a lot of one menu item, put it on the chalk board as a "SPECIAL" at the regular price and then feel justified in not giving the discount. Chef Craig from Ruinas and most recently from Seasons was good at this ploy. I got soured on Seasons when I ordered their special rib dinner which wasn't on the menu but I was believing it couldn't be much more than the Rock charged for a rib dinner. Well, it turned out to be $29 and no discount was allowed.

Thanks for this post Penny. I'll remember to never order a restaurant's SPECIAL offer. This habit sounds like a scam to avoid following the discount law. Not certain how restaurants get by with this behavior, but now I know their "game".

[TwoSailors]

7 hours ago, Penny said:

This is a game played by several restaurants. They make a lot of one menu item, put it on the chalk board as a "SPECIAL" at the regular price and then feel justified in not giving the discount. Chef Craig from Ruinas and most recently from Seasons was good at this ploy. I got soured on Seasons when I ordered their special rib dinner which wasn't on the menu but I was believing it couldn't be much more than the Rock charged for a rib dinner. Well, it turned out to be $29 and no discount was allowed.

$29 for a "Special Rib Dinner!!! What a rip off. Another of the many reasons not to go to Seasons. 

[Bud]

On 3/26/2017 at 2:32 PM, Bud said:

Marcelyn and I patronized an upscale, local Boquete restaurant in April 2016, a bit short of a year ago. I am not naming that restaurant here, but it is one that we would label as a "high end gringo style" restaurant, with pretty good food and service, but disdain for the letter of the law regarding jubilado discounts. Note that we have a personal policy of not requesting a jubilado discount when the total cost per person is less than $10.00, nor when it is a tipico, nor when we feel that the value received for the price paid is adequate. While this instance was a good meal and with good service, the price was quite high, which admittedly is a subjective assessment on our part.

And so, last April off to ACODECO in David we go. That denuncia was filed in April 2016. We learned that the ACODECO investigation began in September 2016. And then last Friday (March 24^th) we were summoned for the final report. The result was a denial of our claim.

Without going into a lot of the details here, the essence of the comments by the representative of the restaurant was that they did not remember the incident and that they have many satisfied customers. They also claimed that since we had paid with a credit card that there was no way to trace back to the specific transaction (which doesn't make any sense to me since we included copies of the receipt along with the credit card charge in the filing of the denuncia).

It appears that we have five days from last Friday to appeal this decision. We are going to let this specific incident go. Should we file another denuncia against another restaurant -- and hopefully that will not be necessary -- then we are going to be more meticulous in documenting the transaction with the business that denies the jubilado discount.

I cannot prove it, but methinks part of the paperwork that we submitted somehow got "lost" in the paperwork caverns of the bureaucracy.

Not bitter, but again disappointed that the ACODECO complaint system doesn't seem to work, or perhaps is stacked in favor of the business.

FYI, we went back to the same restaurant since our visit to ACODECO. Did not indicate anything unusual or introduce ourselves, etc., but simply ordered our drinks and meal, etc. Wonderful service, very good food, and when it came to the bill, we asked for the jubilado discount. There was no push back, other than their request for our IDs, which is a totally legitimate request on their part. We provided our cédulas, and the jubilado discount was taken care of.

A pleasant experience. Matter closed as far as we are concerned.