Jubilado Discounts at Restaurants - Descuento de Jubilados en Restaurantes

[Panama Bill]

There seems to be a misconception among some of the local restaurants with regard to the jubilado discount, and customers do not challenge it when they are told that “certain foods or specific plates are ‘specials’ and therefore pensionado discounts do not apply.” There is nothing in Law 6 that allows this type of discrimination and there is no distinction about so called “specials”. The only reference in the law is when a restaurant offers something at a promotional discount (which is less than the regular daily price), in which case the jubilado has the right to choose whether to accept the promotional discount or the jubilado discount. However, to make this selection, one has to know both the regular price of the specific food and the discounted price in order to determine which discount is more beneficial to the jubilado. Just to name something a “special” and deny the jubilado discount is not legal and any restaurant (other than those exempted by law) refusing to honor the spirit of Law 6 should be reported to ACODECO. The law is very explicit, and the recipients of the benefits of the law are not only Panamanians, but also foreigners living in Panama. It does not apply to tourists. On a different subject, although somewhat related to restaurants, Law 34 of August 2, 2016, establishes that a tip is voluntary, and the restaurant cannot include it automatically with the total amount of the check.       Law 6 of June 16, 1987 Benefits for Retirees, Pensioners and Senior Citizens Text has been updated as amended by Law 18 of 1989, Law 15 of 1992, Law 37 of 2001, Law 14 of 2003, Law 51 of 2005 and Law 30 of 2008. January 2011 edition   Article 1 – Benefits - Section 4. Discount of 25% of the value of individual food for consumption in any restaurant, except those considered as fondas (taverns), which do not require a commercial license to operate. It is important to stress that the discount applies only to the individual consumption of the beneficiary of the law, no matter who pays the restaurant bill. The benefit is not transferable and it does not apply to the entire check, even when the retiree pays the entire bill. Individual consumption means the main course, which may or may not include appetizer, dessert and drink, as long as it is purchased for the consumption of the beneficiary. However, if the beneficiary just wants dessert, cold or hot drink the restaurant is not required to give the discount. This discount does not apply to home-delivery orders. Fondas are not obliged to give this discount provided that they do not require a permit of operation. For purposes of the beneficiaries of this section it shall be deemed “fonda” that establishment that has no more than six tables and does not sell alcoholic beverages. Also, street carts selling food are considered fondas. The fact that an establishment selling food is called a "fonda" does not mean it is, as long as it has a license to operate, it must grant the 25% discount (in case of a promotion, the beneficiary must choose one or the other, the promotional discount or the jubilado discount).

Parece que hay una idea errónea entre algunos de los restaurantes locales con respecto al descuento de jubilado, y los clientes no los desafían cuando les dicen que "ciertos alimentos o platos específicos son ‘especiales’ y por lo tanto los descuentos de pensionado no se aplican". No hay nada en la Ley 6 que permita este tipo de discriminación y no hay distinción entre los llamados "especiales". La única referencia en la ley es cuando un restaurante ofrece algo con un descuento promocional (que es menor que el precio diario regular), en cuyo caso el jubilado tiene el derecho de elegir entre el descuento promocional o el descuento jubilado. Sin embargo, para hacer esta selección, uno tiene que saber tanto el precio regular de la comida específica y el precio con descuento a fin de determinar qué descuento es más beneficioso para el jubilado. Sólo nombrar algo como un "especial" y negar el descuento jubilado no es legal y cualquier restaurante (salvo los exentos por la ley) que se niega a honrar el espíritu de la Ley 6 debe ser reportado a ACODECO. La ley es muy explícita, y los beneficiarios de los beneficios de la ley no son sólo los panameños, sino también los extranjeros que viven en Panamá. No se aplica a los turistas. Sobre un tema diferente, aunque algo relacionado con restaurantes, la Ley 34 del 2 de agosto de 2016 establece que la propina es voluntaria, por lo que el restaurante no puede incluirla automáticamente en el precio total de la cuenta.   LEY No. 6 de 16 de junio de 1987   En Beneficios de los Jubilados, Pensionados, y Tercera Edad Texto actualizado conforme ha sido reformado por la Ley 18 de 1989, Ley 15 de 1992, Ley 37 de 2001, Ley 14 de 2003, Ley 51 de 2005, y Ley 30 de 2008.   Versión enero 2011   Artículo 1 – Beneficios - Sección 4. Descuento de 25% del valor del consumo individual de comida en cualquier restaurante, salvo aquellos considerados como fondas, que no requieran de licencia comercial para operar. Es importante recalcar que el descuento aplica únicamente al consumo individual del beneficiario de la Ley, sin importar quien pague la cuenta del restaurante. El beneficio no es transferible, ni aplicable a toda la cuenta, así y cuando el jubilado pague toda la cuenta. Se entiende por consumo individual la adquisición del plato fuerte, al cual puede o no sumarse la entrada, postre y bebida, siempre y cuando sea adquirida para la alimentación del beneficiario. Sin embargo, si el beneficiario solo adquiere un postre, bebida fría o caliente el comercio no está obligado a dar el descuento. Este descuento no aplica para pedidos a domicilio. No están obligados a dar este descuento las fondas, siempre y cuando no requieran de aviso de operación. Para efecto de los beneficiarios de este numeral, se considerará fonda aquella que no tiene más de seis mesas y no vendan bebidas alcohólicas. Igualmente se consideran fondas los carritos ambulantes de venta de comida. El hecho de que un establecimiento venda comida y se denomine “fonda”, no significa que lo es, puesto que si posee aviso de operación para operar, debe otorgar el descuento de 25% (en caso de oferta, el beneficiario puede acogerse a una de las dos, a la promoción o al descuento de jubilados).

Edited March 1, 2017 by Panama Bill

[TwoSailors]

 

23 minutes ago, Panama Bill said:

There is nothing in Law 6 that allows this type of discrimination and there is no distinction about so called "specials". The only reference in the law is when a restaurant offers something at a promotional discount (which is less than the regular daily price), in which case the retiree has the right to choose whether to accept the promotional discount or the retired discount. However, to make this selection, one has to know both the regular price of the specific food and the discounted price in order to determine which discount is more beneficial to the retiree. Just to name something "special" and deny the retired discount is not legal and any restaurant (other than those exempted by law) refusing to honor the spirit of Law 6 should be reported to ACODECO.

If a restaurant is small and has very reasonable prices we do not bother with getting the discount. Bigger restaurants, especially ones that advertise and do postings

on social media sites should be giving the discount. Ones that advertise a particular special with a set price and then state "no discounts for this special event" are skirting the law and should be avoided. They know who they are!!!

[Panama Bill]

Yes, I agree with you about restaurants (whether small or large) that provide quality food at reasonable prices where you don't request the jubilado discount. I have done that many times myself. However, that's our decision, and it should not be imposed by the restaurant, which is illegal. People need to know their rights on this issue which is being abused too frequently.

[MarieElaine]

I think that a lot of restaurants frequented by expat seniors raise their prices in order to account for giving the Jubilado discount.

[Bud]

This topic comes up periodically.

Somewhat similar to Two Sailors, when Marcelyn and I eat at a tipico or if our bill is $10.00 or less (at times less than $20.00), then we do not ask for a discount. And then on the other end of the spectrum, some restaurants offer the discount even if we don't ask for it (e.g., the Chinese steak house in David, etc.). We always acknowledge with appreciation such actions on their part.

You may want to also read http://www.chiriqui.life/topic/2089-jubilado-discounts for another topic on this same subject.

 

[TwoSailors]

9 hours ago, MarieElaine said:

I think that a lot of restaurants frequented by expat seniors raise their prices in order to account for giving the Jubilado discount.

Don't go to them, and tell all your friends!! They will either get the message or go out of business. That brunch price of $35 is sure pushing the envelope!! Shame on them!!

[Jim Bondoux]

The proposition for the $35 (tax included) price includes more than the brunch, which itself is a large and elaborate offering.  The jardin encantado offers these special events only on an occasional basis, and the price includes support for, and access to, a large botanical garden populated with a number of local wildlife rescue animals. The reviews on Tripadvisor seem to shake out around a 4.5 out 5, suggesting that most visitors find value for the charge. I think that indignation over the price is misplaced. I have  purchased my ticket and I look forward to the experience.

[Pederhaney]

Who is the "expert"? Panama Bill gives me no clue.   Is this an opinion of a working legal professional?  Credentials and name, please.  Too much 'authoritative' translation of the law and opinions of the law here have been damaging to people who have relied on it.

[Panama Bill]

No "expert" here. This is simply a copy of the law as published by ACODECO in Spanish, as the law was written. The English version is just a translation of the original in Spanish. There is nothing "authoritative" or "opinions" represented here. I have attached the actual law document as published by ACODECO in its own language and the translated version so you may compare the two for accuracy, if you read Spanish.

Ley 6.pdf

Ley 6-English.docx

[MarieElaine]

13 hours ago, TwoSailors said:

Don't go to them, and tell all your friends!! They will either get the message or go out of business. That brunch price of $35 is sure pushing the envelope!! Shame on them!!

No matter what is included I think $35 eliminates a lot of us and also our Panamanian friends.  I have experienced a lot of beautiful gardens that cost me nothing to tour.  I agree with you TwoSailors.  I can sit on the patio at Big Daddies, have a glass of wine and a great meal for under $15.  

[Siempre Soluciones]

One of the problems that plagues restaurant owners are the people on tourists visas claiming the jubilado discount.  I'm surprised that restaurants don't request proof.  Think of all that lost revenue.  In fact there's one expat in Boquete on a tourist visa that can't obtain permanent residency but demands the julibado discount everywhere including low cost eateries.  They proclaim that restaurant owners are greedy, capitalistic scumbags that shouldn't earn a profit on food.

[Pat]

25 minutes ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

One of the problems that plagues restaurant owners are the people on tourists visas claiming the jubilado discount.  I'm surprised that restaurants don't request proof.  Think of all that lost revenue.  In fact there's one expat in Boquete on a tourist visa that can't obtain permanent residency but demands the julibado discount everywhere including low cost eateries.  They proclaim that restaurant owners are greedy, capitalistic scumbags that shouldn't earn a profit on food.

 Perhaps all Boquete restaurants could be given notice plus picture of this individual who is here on a tourist visa and demanding the julibado discount. This person's actions are illegal. 

[Pat]

14 hours ago, TwoSailors said:

Don't go to them, and tell all your friends!! They will either get the message or go out of business. That brunch price of $35 is sure pushing the envelope!! Shame on them!!

We refuse to eat at a restaurant who won't allow julibado discount. Why? These places are not following the law and we want no association with them. Also, we never ask for this discount at the smaller eateries who are plentiful around town.

P.S. I agree with Two Sailors: Avoid a $35 brunch with no julibado discount allowed.

[Brundageba]

It's the law but the restaurant takes the hit.  I do believe they can deduct the $ from their taxes...but I doubt any of them ever do that paper work. 

[Penny]

It's a common misconception that the restaurant can deduct the discount amount from their taxes. What actually happens is when a restaurant sells a $10 meal for $8, they only report the $8 income. Actually, many smaller fondas and restaurants pay no income taxes. You have to have gross sales of $30,000 per year before you're liable for income taxes. Restaurants that don't pay income taxes, take the hit from the discount.

The tourist visa person who demands the discount should be informed of the law. This is the true definition of an "Ugly American". What an A*H* (pendejo in Spanish).

[Siempre Soluciones]

1 hour ago, Penny said:

It's a common misconception that the restaurant can deduct the discount amount from their taxes. What actually happens is when a restaurant sells a $10 meal for $8, they only report the $8 income. Actually, many smaller fondas and restaurants pay no income taxes. You have to have gross sales of $30,000 per year before you're liable for income taxes. Restaurants that don't pay income taxes, take the hit from the discount.

The tourist visa person who demands the discount should be informed of the law. This is the true definition of an "Ugly American". What an A*H* (pendejo in Spanish).

 

Yes, and this pendejo even only pays jubilado rates on taxis and buses screwing them over too.

 

[Pat]

21 minutes ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

 

Yes, and this pendejo even only pays jubilado rates on taxis and buses screwing them over too.

 

Get this pendejo person out of town now.  Causes trouble for the rest of us.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Pat
Spelling

[Bud]

2 hours ago, Penny said:

It's a common misconception that the restaurant can deduct the discount amount from their taxes. What actually happens is when a restaurant sells a $10 meal for $8, they only report the $8 income. Actually, many smaller fondas and restaurants pay no income taxes. You have to have gross sales of $30,000 per year before you're liable for income taxes. Restaurants that don't pay income taxes, take the hit from the discount.

The tourist visa person who demands the discount should be informed of the law. This is the true definition of an "Ugly American". What an A*H* (pendejo in Spanish).

My Spanish is very poor, but I believe the word pendejo (without an "s" on the end) only means an idiot, or stupid idiot, or words to that effect. The word pendejos (note the plural form) is the A..H... that you refer to. This is the only Spanish curse word that I [currently] know.

FWIW.

[Hil]

I have observed the restaurants giving discounts by age NOT nationality or tourist status. They jubilado age is 62 males and 55 women I believe. I have my Ecedula but my Pensionado card was alway honored. It says Permenant Tourist on it. So, I don't understand some of these laws. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Hil

[Penny]

3 hours ago, Bud said:

My Spanish is very poor, but I believe the word pendejo (without an "s" on the end) only means an idiot, or stupid idiot, or words to that effect. The word pendejos (note the plural form) is the A..H... that you refer to. This is the only Spanish curse word that I [currently] know.

FWIW.

My former Spanish teacher was also a linguist who loved studying the root derivation of words. She said that the word "pendejo" literally means "pubic hair" but is used loosely to mean A**H***. I think the word came into the English vocabulary when the former president of Mexico called George Bush a "pendejo". My favorite Spanish translation service agrees with me:

http://www.spanishdict.com/translate/pendejo

[Penny]

25 minutes ago, Keith Woolford said:

Too bad there are no more rails to ride the guy out of town on. You could probably find some tar and feathers though.

Are you referring to George Bush? Or the pendejo gringo?

[Keith Woolford]

3 hours ago, Pat said:

4 hours ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

Yes, and this pendejo even only pays jubilado rates on taxis and buses screwing them over too.

 

Get this pendejo person out of town now.  Causes trouble for the rest of us.

Too bad there are no more rails to ride the guy out of town on. You could probably find some tar and feathers though.

[Pat]

9 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

Too bad there are no more rails to ride the guy out of town on. You could probably find some tar and feathers though.

Good idea. With all the information provided by Siempre Soluciones, this gringo sounds like a selfish person who is not following the law requirements.

I followed the rules (background checks, paid for legal assistance, etc.) to gain my ecedula and be eligible for the Jubilado discount. Let him do the same or stop demanding this privilege.

Do you know where tar and feathers are available?

 

[Panama Bill]

I think that Hil had asked and answered his own question earlier, before he edited it, which was " Does it state no discount on tourist visa in the law? No." And that is correct, however, the law states very specifically that you MUST reside in Panama, which obviously excludes tourists since they don't live here. Except those those who remain here illegally or run to the border every few months to get their passports stamped. They are not entitled to the discount.

All merchants, not just restaurants, should ask for ID as detailed below to ascertain that they are providing the discount to eligible individuals so they (merchants) won't get screwed.

 

Article 1.
Panamanians or foreigners who reside within the national territory who are, fifty five [55] years of age or more, if they are women; or sixty [60] years of age or more, if they are men; and all those retirees and pensioners of any gender, they will enjoy the following benefits ...

From these transcribed standards two considerations emerge:

1.       In order of nationality:
The recipients of the benefits of the law are not only Panamanians, but also foreigners living in Panama.

2.       In order of age:
These Panamanians or foreigners residing in Panama must be in any of the following categories:
a) Ladies from 55 years of age, and gentlemen from 60 years of age. (Seniors).
b) Be retired, of any genre.
c) Be pensioner, of any genre.

Article 4 of Law 6 of 1987 states that the beneficiaries of this law will prove their entitlement to its benefits by showing:

1. Cedula of personal identity.
2. Jubilado or Pensionado card.
3. Resident visa.

1

1

[Penny]

Article 4 of Law 6 of 1987 states that the beneficiaries of this law will prove their entitlement to its benefits by showing:

1. Cedula of personal identity.
2. Jubilado or Pensionado card.
3. Resident visa.

This means that you must be a legal resident of Panama and not a tourist or illegal.