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Annual water/garbage rate discrimination


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I know that some fees, tariff, etc of some public services could have a different rate based on the "social" component.   In Panama I live in middle class professional neighborhood with a good location within the city.  In my neighborhood there are people from Colombia, Venezuela, Portugal, Spain and a couple of people from the US that have more than 20 years living in the neighborhood.  We have a relative reliable service from water, garbage, electricity, cable tv, internet, etc.  

Because of that our rates are higher than those people in a not so far neighborhood.  That neighborhood is where people with low income lives.  The "social component" of the rates we have to pay in our neighborhood is just as a solidarity action for those who needs the service but couldnt affort to pay the full rate.  

I would recommend to ask for an explanation to the Major office directly.  To make him explain the rates tables and how it was based for the calculation.  Invite him to any or your tuesday meeting.

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The increase in the annual water and garbage bill is not an isolated incidence. I just heard of the same situation with another Canadian couple who were charged $180 and for a Panamanian paying their bill, it was $64!!! And Panamanians aren't asked for their cedula or any identification. If you "look" Panamanian you pay the lower rate. This is illegal. Someone suggested we get a group together, with our receipts, and the Panamanian receipts and talk to a lawyer in David. Boquete cannot charge what they want, let alone a different rate for gringos. If the city officials in David find out about this, there will be a big uproar. In the long run, when foreigners find out about the 'discrimination' there will be less foreigners coming to the area and some may even leave. But the bottom line is -it's WRONG!!

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I will get the definitive answer to this question when my Panamanian neighbor and I go together to pay our garbage bill right after the feria. If they are different she will ask the municipio to explain why and we'll see what they say.

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9 minutes ago, Penny said:

I will get the definitive answer to this question when my Panamanian neighbor and I go together to pay our garbage bill right after the feria. If they are different she will ask the municipio to explain why and we'll see what they say.

The definitive answer is that there is no discrimination by nationality with Municipal of Boquete water and garbage accounts.

Some people have seem to have difficulties understanding the billing system by zone, while others are challenged by the Spanish language.

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1 hour ago, Keith Woolford said:

The definitive answer is that there is no discrimination by nationality with Municipal of Boquete water and garbage accounts.

Some people have seem to have difficulties understanding the billing system by zone, while others are challenged by the Spanish language.

Accusations without proof really are non-productive and could be damaging to public relations.

No one has offered a receipt showing $x and one from their immediate neighbour showing $x/2.

However, I have noticed over the years that many folks are more inclined to believe rumours than facts if they agree with their perceptions.

 

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Given all of the postings in this thread, we were concerned about the payment of our garbage bill, but things worked out fine for us. Paid it this morning. It was a sizeable increase, specifically 47.27%. However, this is only approximately $2.00/month, which is very reasonable to our way of thinking. Note that as a resident of El Santuario, we only get garbage service from the city; our water is provided by Acuaducto de Alto Lino, and is paid in April.

  • My 2014 garbage bill was $15.60
  • My 2015 garbage bill was $23.40
  • My 2016 garbage bill was $16.50
  • My 2017 garbage bill was $24.30 (the one paid today)

What I don't understand is why the rate goes all over the place. Not complaining, just curious.

BTW, there was a lot of keyboard activity on the part of the clerk this morning -- probably close to 3 minutes. And for the first time, I was asked for my cédula, which I provided, and that number is now on my garbage bill. (I've had a cédula for four years now, but it was never requested in prior years.)

We were lucky on the timing of our arrival at the Tesoreria this morning, There was only one person in line when we arrived. By the time we left -- total turnaround time was about 5 minutes once she started processing my payment -- there were nine people behind me. Actually there are two lines right now, given large number of people to take care of, but the second computer failed, and so we had to revert to one line.

[As a sidebar comment, a friend from the Volcancito area told me yesterday that his garbage bill went up by more than double, to just a bit under $60.00.]

The clerk was very professional, and greeted me with a smile, and wished me a good day when I left.

Overall, this was a pleasant experience.

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On 1/18/2017 at 7:52 AM, Keith Woolford said:

The definitive answer is that there is no discrimination by nationality with Municipal of Boquete water and garbage accounts.

Some people have seem to have difficulties understanding the billing system by zone, while others are challenged by the Spanish language.

 

I'm the only gringo on my street of Panamanians and just like last year my annual water bill was double that of all of my neighbors.  Yes, we compared bills.  I brought this up in a casual and jovial conversation with Mayor Walker and his wife last night and he gave me a funny look.  It was the second time I've met with the mayor, the first time he successfully assisted me with resolving another problem.  This time I didn't get a good vibe so I won't pursue the issue.  I'm from New York and long ago developed a good sense of when it's wrong to be right.

 

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16 hours ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

I brought this up in a casual and jovial conversation with Mayor Walker and his wife last night and he gave me a funny look.

Most likely the Mayor found you to be rude for querying his administration in a social situation.

Edited by Keith Woolford
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3 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

Most likely the Mayor found you to be rude for querying his administration in a social situation.

 

For clarification, I mentioned the water issue after his wife had stepped away.  In my experience, standard practice for exploratory requests and questions with executives and politicians is to always address them off site in non-formal social settings.  Appearing at his office with an attorney with a member of the media to discuss this issue would've been rude in my book.  And for the record, none of my attorneys would've done so and I feel you'd be hard pressed to locate an attorney who would pose such a challenge.

 

As I mentioned, this was the second time that I've met Mayor Walker.  Boquete is a small town and you are who your friends and business associates are and he knows mine.  His funny look?  He knows damn well that I'm not going to pursue an issue regarding a small amount of money when me and my business associates have ongoing business in Boquete.  It was simply viewed as a joke.

 

 

 

 

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I understand your intentions, S.S., but I think Keith is probably right. Your experience with how to approach politicians is American. It's different here. A good Panamanian friend warned me long ago never to raise "official" issues (jokingly or not) in a social setting as, in Panamanian etiquette, it is considered rude. A friendly visit to the Mayor's office--without a lawyer and media--would be the correct move. And it would be made easier since you already know the Mayor and have found success with this approach.

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17 hours ago, Bonnie said:

I understand your intentions, S.S., but I think Keith is probably right. Your experience with how to approach politicians is American. It's different here. A good Panamanian friend warned me long ago never to raise "official" issues (jokingly or not) in a social setting as, in Panamanian etiquette, it is considered rude. A friendly visit to the Mayor's office--without a lawyer and media--would be the correct move. And it would be made easier since you already know the Mayor and have found success with this approach.

 

I've been conducting business this way for decades in Latin America, I've never encountered a problem.  In fact, there's a government official here in Chiriqui that likes to conduct business in of all places at cock fights.  Go figure.

 

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As promised I went with my Panamanian neighbor today to pay our garbage bills. Last year mine went up considerably (to $32.40) because I was a gringo. Yes, they actually said that was the reason. This year my bill stayed the same and my Panamanian neighbor's bill rose up to equal my bill. So, no profiling in our neighborhood. However, at the same time I paid the garbage bill for a house in Santa Lucia (Volcancito neighborhood) and that bill was $54 for garbage. I believe the rate difference was because Santa Lucia is a planned community and I live more in a neighborhood. In any case both $32.40 and $54 a year are pretty cheap. Also, many folks think that the rate increase was to pay for the new garbage trucks but I heard today that they were a gift from the government of Taiwan which, apparently, likes to give stuff to Panama.

The big difference in bills seems to be the water bills. There are something like 21 different water systems in the Boquete area. My system is the Jaramillo Arriba system which has billed me $16.20 a year for  many, many years and we never run out of water. The water bill I paid for the house in Santa Lucia which gets very, very little water was $108/year.

Irony !!!!

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This year my bill stayed the same and my Panamanian neighbor's bill rose up to equal my bill.

So two neighbours of different nationalities both paid the same amount for 2017 garbage collection. There was no discrimination, and that's good to hear.

The Municipal Rate chart or guide for Water and Garbage collection does not have a 'classification' for Gringos or any other foreigners. The rates are by zone, or location, although there may be economic considerations applied in setting them. There are also discounts available for paying the year in advance, and for seniors, 'tercer edad'.

Here in Brisas it seems our immediate Panamanian, Colombian, and North American neighbours paid the same as we did.

Edited by Keith Woolford
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