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Gordon Bakke

Keeping It Classy On Boquete.ning

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Current discussions prove conclusively that one should never put one's own witch on public display.

Don't hate, hate hate.

wryawry

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why do you even care about what's posted on Ning. Focus on Volcancito not having water and issues that matter, who cares what they do on other sites

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Here's why; when a forum like boquete.ning, which claims to be a site dedicated to informing the local community about events and happenings around the area devolves into a place where racist and anti-Semitic insults are hurled, I think they need to be called on it. And when they claim that oh...we just don't have the time to moderate these posts, I say bull****. They sure seem to have time to respond to every single post that criticizes their MANAGEMENT of the site. So I would ask YOU, Danielle, why do you NOT care when racist comments of the very worst kind are allowed on a local community forum?

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I agree with Gordon.  Folks who look to possibly come to live or visit here might be pretty much appalled at what has recently appeared there.  Pure antisemitism.   For this reason we all enjoy this site where that kind of dialogue does not occur.  

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17 hours ago, Danielle said:

why do you even care about what's posted on Ning.

The racist, hateful and intolerant rhetoric which has been dominating that forum reflects poorly on Boquete and it's residents.

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Would it be hypocritical for me to say that even my own hurled stink-bombs in the past paled in comparison to the unprecedented savagery currently being excreted? These things matter. Words matter. A twisted, morally and intellectually corrupt sociopath is screaming "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre. Ignoring these types of behaviour has proven historically to result in inconceivable consequences. The dearth of even nominal management of incendiary, hateful, relentless attacks against humanity reeks of tacit approval. I, for one, am utterly flabbergasted. I shudder with loathing and disgust. The author's enablers should be condemned as roundly as the author himself of these egregious, vitriolic insults.

 

There is a better world. Believe in a better world.

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34 minutes ago, WryAwry said:

Would it be hypocritical for me to say that even my own hurled stink-bombs in the past paled in comparison to the unprecedented savagery currently being excreted? These things matter. Words matter. A twisted, morally and intellectually corrupt sociopath is screaming "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre. Ignoring these types of behaviour has proven historically to result in inconceivable consequences. The dearth of even nominal management of incendiary, hateful, relentless attacks against humanity reeks of tacit approval. I, for one, am utterly flabbergasted. I shudder with loathing and disgust. The author's enablers should be condemned as roundly as the author himself of these egregious, vitriolic insults.

 

There is a better world. Believe in a better world.

I try to believe in a better world but there is so much hate/war/corruption/fascism that it is hard to remain optimistic.  I too was naturally (I say "naturally" because any normal human being interested in a better world would naturally be upset knowing this individual lives in our community) appalled at the tirade and anti-semitic remarks on ning and hope never to meet this person or his enablers.  Hatred at that level is a sickness that requires serious treatment.

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Since this page is so concerned over what happens at Ning, please look at the post by Bob Hunter where he declares himself Jewish. The posts are certainly responsibility of the person posting, as is in this site and not of the site or its owners.

I have never seen on Ning anything pertaining to discussions on this page, yet, there are several instances where members here start posts about what goes on there, can anyone explain why? and why do the owners of this page allow this?

 

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SO concerned? Hardly. Posts about .ning rarely appear here anymore since so many of us were banned from that site for minor infractions. To say that posts over there are the responsibility of the person posting is disingenuous, as MANY conversations over there have been closed down solely at the whim of the moderator(s). At a certain point, I think, when the content that appears there becomes blatantly racist, there is a good reason for stepping in to stop it. As others have said, it reflects poorly on both the site as well as the community we live in. I would post a couple of pictures from the thread I referenced, but they are SO over the top offensive that I'll leave it to you do your own research.

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4 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

The racist, hateful and intolerant rhetoric which has been dominating that forum reflects poorly on Boquete and it's residents.

Moreover,  the hateful and intolerant rhetoric on Ning may attract people of the same ilk to our community. It's a losing situation either way.

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5 hours ago, Danielle said:

 

I have never seen on Ning anything pertaining to discussions on this page, yet, there are several instances where members here start posts about what goes on there, can anyone explain why? and why do the owners of this page allow this?

 

You know why?  Because in this site we try to be mature and intelligent persons sharing information and comments of relevance for the people and community.  So CL does not have any kind of post or discussions that degenerate in harsh criticism, racism, insults, bigotry, etc.  We love free speech but:  "your rights finish where my rights starts"

So, as much as I have seen, the comments in this page are done in a respectful manner about what it is going there.  So there is not harm to comment about a forum that is about Boquete. A site that reflects to the world the behaviour of some expats living in Boquete.   So it has been ok for all the members of this site to do, once in a while, comments on that site when it deserves the attention because of the tone and level of the comments done.  Hey, those people are living in your community.  They could be your neighbors.  They are around you.   I wonder why are you worried about postings done here about Ning.  Does it affect you?  Does it bothers you?  

The owners of this page will allow postings of whatever subject is of interest if they are posted in an educated way and without any kind of insults and bad taste.  So there is not a problem, is it? 

Edited by Roger B
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I was talking to Michael the other day about this very thing. Michael is the guy who started the discussion on NING about Jewish life that erupted into a flurry of very weird anti-Semitic posts. I know Bud keeps a watchful eye on this site but my gut feeling is that the vast majority of us self-moderate and are basically decent people. We've also learned the lesson about how quickly a discussion group disintegrates when left unchecked.

When Lee first started NING he told me he was going to do absolutely no censorship. Within a week or two there were several people posting total pornography and hatred on the site. Lee changed his policy but he hated to have to do it.

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Funny Roger because you were once a member of Ning as many of you still are, and those who are banned also check the site. It is funny you can be respectful here but disrespectful there. Funny as well because Roger you may have expat friends all you want, but you are NOT an expat nor live in Boquete, so advocating to be a member of the community is kind of untrue. We, the ones who DO live in Boquete deal with this unwarranted behavior and criticism and hatred all day long.

It affects me? yes, it shows hypocrisy and double standards by members of the community I live in and unfortunately it is very sad the newcomers see this kind of behavior in both sites. I deal a lot with younger expats and they for the most part are not a fan of either site because of these kinds of attitudes. Maturity in your eyes is site selective.

 

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Danielle

Many of us were not banned from NING for bad behavior. Some of us were banned simply because we were friends with Bud and Marcelyn

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The offensive postings on boquete.ning continue to dominate one discussion after another about U.S. politics. Don't recall seeing any discussions pertaining to Jewish life.

Telling people to bypass streams they don't want to read is fine but that is not 'moderation'. The overall tone and reputation of a site suffer when that type of dialogue keeps showing up and is allowed to stand.

The opening of a discussion here on the same subject matter which has fomented such a display of hatred and vile discourse elsewhere, seems counter-productive to the goals of this site. It's a slippery slope.

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I agree with Keith. I believe the Jewish discussion was finally deleted by the NING moderators.

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24 minutes ago, Danielle said:

Funny Roger because you were once a member of Ning as many of you still are, and those who are banned also check the site. It is funny you can be respectful here but disrespectful there. Funny as well because Roger you may have expat friends all you want, but you are NOT an expat nor live in Boquete, so advocating to be a member of the community is kind of untrue. We, the ones who DO live in Boquete deal with this unwarranted behavior and criticism and hatred all day long.

It affects me? yes, it shows hypocrisy and double standards by members of the community I live in and unfortunately it is very sad the newcomers see this kind of behavior in both sites. I deal a lot with younger expats and they for the most part are not a fan of either site because of these kinds of attitudes. Maturity in your eyes is site selective.

 

Excuse me, but Rogelio Bellido is an online friend for many years and is a member of this site, as equal as any other. There is no import as to his nationality or place of residence. His comments and input are appreciated by me no matter where he posts them.

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43 minutes ago, Keith Woolford said:

The offensive postings on boquete.ning continue to dominate one discussion after another about U.S. politics. Don't recall seeing any discussions pertaining to Jewish life.

Telling people to bypass streams they don't want to read is fine but that is not 'moderation'. The overall tone and reputation of a site suffer when that type of dialogue keeps showing up and is allowed to stand.

The opening of a discussion here on the same subject matter which has fomented such a display of hatred and vile discourse elsewhere, seems counter-productive to the goals of this site. It's a slippery slope.

I agree with Keith. Allowing discussions of U.S. politics, racism, and other divisive subjects is an extremely slippery slope. Bud and Marcelyn cannot be online twenty-four hours a day to monitor what turn such discussions might take. I think--and have always thought--that permitting posts on whatever subject one chooses via the Personal Musings and Blogs route is a mistake in that it compromises CL's stated mission of being a site about Panama, Chiriqui in particular.

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Interestingly, one of the posts referred to pertained to "which way the wind blows" -- a topic of broad interest whether weather or will. Despite observing from afar, the topics discussed elsewhere are germane to myself as much as the participants here on CL, insofar as they are reflective of a community of souls with similar, if disparate, views and goals. Divisive, racist rhetoric -- especially when taken to the purely hateful extremes being so callously demonstrated, affect humanity like a cancer and the community at large like a virus. In my opinion, these issues are worthy of discussion, and should be dissected enough to ensure that the pernicious infection does not spread. These are barbarians howling at the gates of decency and civility.

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In the interest of full disclosure, isn't it true, Danielle, that you share a close familial relationship with one of the moderators (Olga Suarez) of boquete.ning?

Edited by Gordon Bakke

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23 hours ago, Danielle said:

Since this page is so concerned over what happens at Ning, please look at the post by Bob Hunter where he declares himself Jewish. The posts are certainly responsibility of the person posting, as is in this site and not of the site or its owners.

I have never seen on Ning anything pertaining to discussions on this page, yet, there are several instances where members here start posts about what goes on there, can anyone explain why? and why do the owners of this page allow this?

 

For many of us here Danielle who have resided here close to a decade or more, the .NING site was the respected go-to spot for information for new residents and as well those looking to be new residents.   The help that came from the site was enormous.  Sadly Lee Zeltzer passed away and the site changed hands.  With that came the ousting of many of the old guard posters on the site...respected folks in our community!    I guess for those of us that were ousted or left voluntarily because to that ousting, we still have some nostalgia for what we remember as Lee's .Ning.  Many of us go back from time to time to see what's new there.   To see what is left in print on .NING which is so hateful towards a group of people gets a reaction from us.  Antisemitism.   Lee Zeltzer who founded and ran the site was born Jewish.  He'd not let that kind of diatribe fly...we all know that, whether it be anti-Jewish or anti-anything that denigrates a group of people ...it just would not fly with him.   So of course we all react.   It's only natural.

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11 hours ago, Danielle said:

Funny Roger because you were once a member of Ning as many of you still are, and those who are banned also check the site. It is funny you can be respectful here but disrespectful there. Funny as well because Roger you may have expat friends all you want, but you are NOT an expat nor live in Boquete, so advocating to be a member of the community is kind of untrue. We, the ones who DO live in Boquete deal with this unwarranted behavior and criticism and hatred all day long.

 

Danielle

 

It is interesting your response.  My age and experience let me understand peoples writting because it reflects, in most of the cases, the way the person thinks.

First.  I would like that you send me only one, just one proof, that I posted a disrespectful comment of anybody here, on Boquete.Ning or any other forum.  So if you dont know me you cant talk about me.  So this is the first lie you are writting and implying.

I am not an expat.  That is right.  I am not living in Boquete, that is right.  But I am a panamanian citizen and this is my country so I think that I cant participate in any forum I would like.  You dont know.  You dont know if I have family living in Chiriqui.  You dont know if I have family or relatives living in Boquete.   If you can read you should notice that most of my posting have the goal of helping expats living in this, my imperfect country, how to understand things, procedures, culture, customs, laws, etc.   So I dont think that you are the person who has a right to disqualify me to post and participate in this forum that is located in my country.  In my more than 4 years of being posting in Boquete and Chiriqui forums I have always received good words of the owners of the forums.  I did exchange calls and personal email with Lee Seltzer.  I know PERSONALLY the owner of this forum.  

So I am sorry if you dont like me be around because you are disqualifying me to be here. 

 

 

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