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1 hour ago, JudyS said:

I have received flu vaccines and had no ill effect.  I have also had the flu in years when I didn't get the vaccine , a disease I never want to get again.  It's terrible.  So far the scientific studies (you all know what those are, the ones with provable evidence) have debunked all the misinformation and alarms from the anti-vaxxers, who are even telling people not to vaccinate their dogs and cats.  I wonder how they will feel when they watch their pets die of distemper.

And I had pneumonia earlier this year. I've never been so sick in my life, and I never want to have it again. There are loads of medical "studies" out there, but it's the clinical trials that count. And clinical trials have given a thumbs up to both the flu vaccine and the pneumonia vaccine. Moreover, the older you get, the more important they are.

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19 hours ago, Jim Bondoux said:

Flu vaccines are an attempt to manipulate one's auto-immune system. This is dangerous territory, since there is no way to know all of the potential side-effects, including possibly very debilitating ones. Different humans have different responses, and one's responses also change over time. The US Center for Disease Control has published information stating that flu vaccines can be ineffective and/or counterproductive.

It is also recognized that the political lobby known as "Big Pharma" is one of the more powerful such lobbies active in influencing all of the relevant organizations. There is a lot of energy in the promotion of the benefits of vaccines, not so much in informing about their risks. It is therefore reasonable to think that there may be more misinformation on the "pro" side than on the "con" side.

In my view, it is not at all irresponsible to question publicly that flu vaccines are a universal, risk-free boon. Some thoughtful folks avoid them for what may be very sound reasons.

 

With regard to what Jim said, I'll add: The flu vaccines contain thimerosal (a mercury-containing organic compound), formaldehyde, Polysorbate 80 ( rare case reports of liver toxicity have been published), sucrose (table sugar), sorbitol, monosodium glutamate (MSG), neomycin, gentamicin, and other antibiotics, egg protein (sometimes).

The CDC assures people these ingredients are safe. But the CDC and FDA also approve Big Pharma's drugs that kill millions of people. “Perfectly safe,” right? See http://pharmadeathclock.com/

I've never had a flu vaccination and I don't get the flu. My employee doesn't get the vaccination either, and he doesn't get the flu. A few years ago he told me the hospitals were filled with people who had the flu—and they had had the vaccination.

On the subject of other vaccines: “Autism rates rise 30 percent in two-year span.” http://www.factcheck.org/2017/02/has-autism-prevalence-increased/ My opinion, and that of many others, is that autism is caused by the vastly increased amount of vaccines pumped into new-born babies. (Of course Big Pharma and “scientific evidence” will deny this.)

See also http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccines-and-autism-a-new-scientific-review/ Helen Ratajczak, author "Theoretical aspects of autism: Causes--A review." She states that for years while working in the pharmaceutical industry, she was restricted as to what she was allowed to publish. "I'm retired now," she told CBS News. "I can write what I want."

Ratajczak also looks at a factor that hasn't been widely discussed: human DNA contained in vaccines.

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http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/03/right-vaccine-dosage-for-babies.aspx

  • Even though the government acknowledges that vaccines have dangerous side effects, the CDC continues to recommend giving children 49 doses of 14 different vaccines by the time he/she turns 6.

  • Most babies the in the U.S. get more than two dozen doses of vaccines by the time they are one year old. A new study finds developed nations, who give their infants the most vaccines in the first year of life, have the worst infant mortality rates.

    --------------------------------

Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm just expressing my opinion—and some facts. (Although some “scientific studies” will refute the facts, it's critical to learn whose payroll the “scientists” are on, either directly or indirectly.)

I choose not to receive any vaccinations, but each person is in charge of his or her own health and the decisions regarding it.

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The autism myth has been thoroughly debunked, the testimony of your employee is the worst kind of anecdotal information, and Dr. Mercola is a quack. The first sentence attributed to Dr. Mercola above misstates the issue, and the second is patently false. Everyone needs to ask him- or herself whether he/she would even be here today were it not for the smallpox vaccine, the yellow fever vaccine, the typhoid vaccine, the polio vaccine, the tetanus vaccine, the rubella vaccine, etc., etc. But I don't think extending this discussion will change anyone's mind.

Edited by Bonnie

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I have a friend in Canada whose daughter died from immunization.  The virus' moved into her organs and slowly broke them down.   She was 15 years old when she died.  I was informed at that time that 1 in 10,000 children dies from immunization but very few die of measles.  A well respected person from this community worked as a drug rep for "Big Pharma" and she will tell you what they push on people that have deadly effects.  Look at the thalidimine (sp?) problem of the 60's or the dalkan shield issue of the 70's to name a few.  All were approved even though they knew there were problems.  Someone has to pay for the development and a few deaths and deformities are worth the risk.  I viewed a program on Nat Geo that outlined the most recent problem with a vaccine given to children in Britain and the EU that caused them all to develop narcolepsy.  Talk about ruining lives, they cannot drive, work or socialize.  There will always be controversy on both sides of the argument but I believe we have to educate ourselves and determine what is best for us as individuals.

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2 hours ago, Bonnie said:

The autism myth has been thoroughly debunked, the testimony of your employee is the worst kind of anecdotal information, and Dr. Mercola is a quack. The first sentence attributed to Dr. Mercola above misstates the issue, and the second is patently false. Everyone needs to ask him- or herself whether he/she would even be here today were it not for the smallpox vaccine, the yellow fever vaccine, the typhoid vaccine, the polio vaccine, the tetanus vaccine, the rubella vaccine, etc., etc. But I don't think extending this discussion will change anyone's mind.

Well said Bonnie!  You just can't argue with people who think their personal opinions are better than scientific evidence, especially if they negate the validity of the evidence.

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1 hour ago, MarieElaine said:

 I viewed a program on Nat Geo that outlined the most recent problem with a vaccine given to children in Britain and the EU that caused them all to develop narcolepsy.  Talk about ruining lives, they cannot drive, work or socialize. 

This claim, and the article and science on which it was based, has been retracted by National Geographic. See  http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/30/narcolepsy-paper-retracted/

And as for vaccines causing autism,

"The widespread fear that vaccines increase risk of autism originated with a 1997 study published by Andrew Wakefield, a British surgeon. The article was published in The Lancet, a prestigious medical journal, suggesting that the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine was increasing autism in British children.

The paper has since been completely discredited due to serious procedural errors, undisclosed financial conflicts of interest, and ethical violations. Andrew Wakefield lost his medical license and the paper was retracted from The Lancet."--from PublicHealth.org

Edited by Bonnie

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Well.  Me with 57 yo and almost hundreds people in Panama that I know such as family, relatives and friends have been taking all the vaccines required and given in Panama and I am here.  Alive and kicking.  Still productive, without any strange disease, only the normal caused by the wear and tear of the age.  

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Dottie Atwater said:

I choose not to receive any vaccinations, but each person is in charge of his or her own health and the decisions regarding it.

Do you believe dogs should be vaccinated against distemper and/or rabies?

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I'm not going to open a can of worms by responding about vaccines for dogs. I've already gotten enough flak from my comments about vaccines for humans. I've gathered extensive files about vaccinations for dogs, including rabies. Anyone who is interested can contact me privately and I'll send them.

I will say that except for parvo and distemper for puppies, I do not vaccinate my dogs at all now. I used to give a new dog one "combo" vaccination after six months of age, and then no more. Now I do not. Only one has had a rabies vaccination (before I knew better) and she has always has health problems--head tilt, etc.

 

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The discussion seems to have deviated from the Flu vaccine issue.

Smallpox, typhoid, etc. (and rabies!) vaccines are mostly only given once, with the occasional booster after a period of years. Flu vaccines are given annually, and there are no studies that I have been able to find that examine the effects over time on the individual from repeated vaccinations.

There is evidence that people with flu shots still get the flu - the Center for Disease Control says as much on their website. There is no sure way in advance of knowing which flu strain will be circulating in a particular year, so the vaccine dispensed in any season may be totally ineffective (probably more likely than not, given the number of known virus strains).

There is something called the National Vaccination Injury Compensation Program in the US (data available on the website of Health Resources and Services Administration of Dept of Health and Human Services). Through December 2015 there were about 2,200 claims made concerning flu vaccines, and nearly 1,900 resulting in awards. Something called Guillain-Barre syndrome seems to be a major culprit.

Flu shots are far from 100% effective, and far from 100% risk-free. So choosing to avoid the flu vaccination is a perfectly reasonable individual decision.

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If I'm not mistaken, the original report which Bud shared stated that three people who recently died from  AH1N1, type B influenza, had not been vaccinated.

Edited by Keith Woolford

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5 hours ago, Jim Bondoux said:

The discussion seems to have deviated from the Flu vaccine issue.

Smallpox, typhoid, etc. (and rabies!) vaccines are mostly only given once, with the occasional booster after a period of years. Flu vaccines are given annually, and there are no studies that I have been able to find that examine the effects over time on the individual from repeated vaccinations.

There is evidence that people with flu shots still get the flu - the Center for Disease Control says as much on their website. There is no sure way in advance of knowing which flu strain will be circulating in a particular year, so the vaccine dispensed in any season may be totally ineffective (probably more likely than not, given the number of known virus strains).

There is something called the National Vaccination Injury Compensation Program in the US (data available on the website of Health Resources and Services Administration of Dept of Health and Human Services). Through December 2015 there were about 2,200 claims made concerning flu vaccines, and nearly 1,900 resulting in awards. Something called Guillain-Barre syndrome seems to be a major culprit.

Flu shots are far from 100% effective, and far from 100% risk-free. So choosing to avoid the flu vaccination is a perfectly reasonable individual decision.

No drug is without risk. That's why there are so many lengthy warning notices in ads and in the drug's info. The choice is to weigh the possible side effects and the percentage of their occurrence (the risk) against the potential benefit. I agree that your decision is a reasonable one, Jim. My quarrel is with those who cite anecdotal evidence, repudiated studies, and quack science to support their point of view.

Edited by Bonnie
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Why quarrel with anyone? Do what you want without bashing the posts of anyone else. What some call "scientific evidence" others call "quack science" (or bought-and-paid-for "science.")

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2 minutes ago, Dottie Atwater said:

Why quarrel with anyone? Do what you want without bashing the posts of anyone else. What some call "scientific evidence" others call "quack science" (or bought-and-paid-for "science.")

Because the unvaccinated are a threat to the health of others.

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10 hours ago, Bonnie said:

Because the unvaccinated are a threat to the health of others.

That's your opinion. There is plenty of valid scientific evidence by others who warn about the vaccination craze. (Those who are not paid directly or indirectly by those who benefit billions of dollars, that is.  The "repudiated studies" are repudiated by those who benefit financially.) As I said, do what you want to do, believe what you choose. When you disagree, there is no need to attack the messenger. I won't respond to any more attacks.

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1 minute ago, Dottie Atwater said:

That's your opinion. There is plenty of valid scientific evidence by others who warn about the vaccination craze. (Those who are not paid directly or indirectly by those who benefit billions of dollars, that is.  The "repudiated studies" are repudiated by those who benefit financially.) As I said, do what you want to do, believe what you choose. When you disagree, there is no need to attack the messenger. I won't respond to any more attacks.

Dottie, what scientific studies are you talking about?  Can you give some links to these?  I would like to know if these studies are real or junk science, peer reviewed and reproducible or just opinions.  Some evidence please.  By the way, Dr. Mercola is a major profiteer in the health care field, identifying maladies then selling his own products to cure them. 

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13 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

three people who recently died from  AH1N1, type B influenza, had not been vaccinated

The point is that it will never be known if vaccination might have prevented the deaths of these folks.

We also don't know if they passed the virus on to others.

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There is plenty of published research if you care to search with an open mind. By the way, although Mercola often has some good information,  I agree that he is a profiteer in selling his own products. I've found that the supplements he pushes are found elsewhere, and most often of better quality as well.

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22 hours ago, Bonnie said:

This claim, and the article and science on which it was based, has been retracted by National Geographic. See  http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/30/narcolepsy-paper-retracted/

I contacted Gert Lammers, president of the European Narcolepsy Network, who originally told me that “the results are very important, but they need to do a replication study in a large group of patients and controls.”

Quoted from the article you sent.  There needs to be replication of the original study.  The program I saw stated that the only thing in common with these children stricken with narcolepsy is the vaccine.  There are hundreds of children in Europe and Britain who have this problem and there are class action suits against the drug company.  While no science is perfect, I am glad this particular pediatric vaccine has been pulled from production.  Too much controversy over these issues and everyone has an opinion and belief.  None are 100% right and no opinion is 100% wrong.  I believe in doing my research before having my body injected with something that may be a  hit or miss.

 

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Over 1.5 million doses of the AH1N1 anti-influenza Vaccine have arrived in Panama.

 

Edited by Keith Woolford

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