TwoSailors Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) We have been meaning to post this for a while but it's very painful to talk about. We lost our wonderful lab, Maggie, in December to a snake bite in our back yard at night here in Brisas. She died in 50 minutes while we frantically tried to find an open vet. A neighbor told us to get her to Dr. Chelly in Boquete but we could not rouse anyone at her place (it was around 9:30 p.m.) We then proceeded to head down to Vet on Wheels in David. But before we could get there, Maggie died in my wife's arms on the back seat of our car. After telling our story to Kris Berg, she said that even if we could have gotten her to a vet there is no antivenin in Panama for dogs. In other words, if you have a dog vs. snake emergency at night you're pretty much on your own. For the curious, we never saw the snake but we heard her yelp. She came staggering up the stairs of our back terrazzo and collapsed on the floor with rapid, gasping breathing, drooling, shaking and muscle spasms. Our neighbor suggested it was probably a young coral snake. We looked it up and her symptoms were identical. http://www.pet360.com/dog/health/coral-snake-bites-in-dogs/dInxG7Sg1U-5PLXgZEnO0w We realized that we had no emergency plan for our dogs. We would like to know how everyone else is prepared for this? Is there a vet you can count on for late-night emergencies? Has anyone had experience using them? Thank you, John & Susan Edited May 10, 2016 by TwoSailors 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Wolf Technology Group Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 John & Susan - I am sorry to hear of your loss and I know how painful it must be. A few years ago the topic of home veterinary care for dogs was posted on Ning. Among the discussion was a book called "The Dog Owners Home Veterinary Handbook". I have attached a copy of that book here as a PDF. It is a 658 page book covering just about everything. The first chapter is 50 pages of various emergencies, including various snakebites. It is not meant as a replacement to your vet but the information contained within would certainly help a person who suddenly has an emergency with their dog and does not know what to do. Being prepared is the key. Giving this book a read will help. DOG OWNERS HOME VETERINARY HANDBOOK.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyS Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Dr. Batista, who now has a clinic in Boquete, will come to your house for emergencies. He speaks English. Phone: 6090-2503 Cuco (Dr. Gonzales) will make house calls after hours, Spanish only. 6588-3039 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) If Kris Berg ( Howling Success) states that there is nothing for dogs with regard to snake bite treatment in this country I'd tend to believe her. I guess it's just a matter of being proactive as we have discussed in another thread "Pests". We pretty much keep our dog out of the bushes and field across the street. (She loves to hunt lizards.) Unfortunately it's a set up for a snake bite. I think no matter what we do snake bite is always a possible. That said, we do our best to keep her safe, active and happy without entering the danger zone. Six feet from where I'm sitting right there on the porch we killed a 6 inch Fer de Lance....this year Edited May 11, 2016 by Admin_01 uploaded the missing JPG image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 6 hours ago, JudyS said: Dr. Batista, who now has a clinic in Boquete, will come to your house for emergencies. He speaks English. Phone: 6090-2503 Cuco (Dr. Gonzales) will make house calls after hours, Spanish only. 6588-3039 Dr. Batista is not there all the time, only his assistant who is not a veterinarian but who, I've heard from reliable sources, poses as one. I suppose if all else fails a call to Cuco wouldn't hurt, but I've never heard of anyone who was satisfied with his service. We're largely on our own after hours. Download the book cited by Twin Wolf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottie Atwater Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) So sorry to hear about your loss, TwoSailors. Injectable Vitamin C is reported to do wonders for snake bite, pavo, and many other things. I'm attaching a file that explains a lot about it. I have the injectable vitamin C on hand that I got from Dr. Tello. The people at Amigos de Animales can get it from the Costa Rica vets. (There is none available in Panama.) The article mentions using 18ga. needles but I've found the regular needles work just fine. Our Vit.C may be less viscous than what's mentioned in the article. I've personally used it to cure very sick dogs at two different times. Each time I thought they were going to die but the next morning they were completely normal. I also have some very fine Vitamin C powder (from Amazon) that I can mix with a little water and give orally. The Vitamin C injection stings. When the dog is very sick, they don't complain a bit. When they're feeling better, they do, and that's when I switch to the oral method. The injectable Vitamin C solution has no taste. (I tried it.) So I think it could also be used orally if the injection is too painful. I believe it is impossible to overdose on Vitamin C. I hope this helps. We need all the information about self-administered care for our animals we can get. Dottie Vitamin C Injectable.odt Edited June 23, 2016 by Admin_01 swapped out the Vitamin C Injectable document per request of the member Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) 12 hours ago, TwoSailors said: We realized that we had no emergency plan for our dogs. We would like to know how everyone else is prepared for this? Is there a vet you can count on for late-night emergencies? Has anyone had experience using them? Thank you, John & Susan This was an extremely sad and difficult situation that we were totally unprepared for. Our hearts were breaking as we realized there was little assistance we could render. Thanks for sharing, we're no better equipped now than we were then to handle an event like this and need to get on it. Cane toads are another real threat to our family members. Edited May 11, 2016 by Keith Woolford 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Two Sailors, When we read this posting we were both saddened greatly. Our hearts go out to you. There is a lesson here that all pet owners/pet lovers should learn. Be prepared. In fact, that goes for being prepared for humans as well, such as the benadryl, and perhaps epi-pens, etc. Nothing beats being prepared during a crisis. We are working on our emergency kit now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyS Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 9 hours ago, Bonnie said: Dr. Batista is not there all the time, only his assistant who is not a veterinarian but who, I've heard from reliable sources, poses as one. I suppose if all else fails a call to Cuco wouldn't hurt, but I've never heard of anyone who was satisfied with his service. We're largely on our own after hours. Download the book cited by Twin Wolf. I know about Cuco's service, but in a dire emergency, if he's the only one available, you can't shop around. I'm sure he has experience with snake bite, since he has been around a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyS Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Bud said: Two Sailors, When we read this posting we were both saddened greatly. Our hearts go out to you. There is a lesson here that all pet owners/pet lovers should learn. Be prepared. In fact, that goes for being prepared for humans as well, such as the benadryl, and perhaps epi-pens, etc. Nothing beats being prepared during a crisis. We are working on our emergency kit now. An epi-pen has a pre-measured dose for humans. It might be dangerous to use on a small or medium dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boquete Community Pulse Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Folks At John and Susan's suggestion we have organized a presentation about this topic at the Tuesday Talks at BCP. It is scheduled for June 21. So far the panel will consist of Alicia McGuigan (Amigos de Animales), Dottie thompson (Amigos de Animales), Lisa Mosley (ARF). We have also asked Dottie Atwater who runs the clinics in Volcan and who posts here to also participate. Each of these people come with a vast array of knowledge and Dottie Thompson has extensive medical training. The panel will cover not only emergency care for pets, but also how to contact a vet in an emergency situation. We will also talk about the clinics, general pet health care, and the ARF mission (adopt, rescue, and foster). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Great idea. This will draw a crowd, I'll wager, so get there early to get your seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 6 minutes ago, Bonnie said: Great idea. This will draw a crowd, I'll wager, so get there early to get your seats. It would be nice if Bernie could find a way (with the assistance of some who could temporarily volunteer equipment) to video talks like this and post podcasts on the BCP website for the benefit of the vendors who are renting space and the rest of the community who miss out on highly attended events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 19 minutes ago, Deborah said: It would be nice if Bernie could find a way (with the assistance of some who could temporarily volunteer equipment) to video talks like this and post podcasts on the BCP website for the benefit of the vendors who are renting space and the rest of the community who miss out on highly attended events. Wonder if Howard Hill would video it.....That would be a great one to put on DVD's for new pet owner settlers here. Sell it as a donation to Amigos de Animales...nuther idea. Hey I'm full of it !...(no comment) Alison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 It seems to me that if BCP videoed the Tuesday presentations and made those videos available online, it likely would dramatically reduce actual attendance and therefore would reduce badly needed income for BCP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Wolf Technology Group Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 If that ended up being a problem, making the videos available for a fee would solve it. I know that there are people that would like to see and hear the Tuesday talks but for one reason or another simply can not come to Boquete every Tuesday. I am one of those people. I think adding them as a podcast here would be a wonderful community service, even if it required a very small donation to access the download area for those podcasts. The donation could go directly to the BCP. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boquete Community Pulse Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 These are great ideas about videotaping and selling the right to access the download but you guys forget we are a volunteer group and we are greatly over-extended as it is. If someone wants to volunteer to videotape and then program the website to collect money for a download, we would welcome your volunteer effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisDogMom Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 An reliable emergency vet is something that is greatly needed here. I had the idea when I first moved here of speaking to the local vets and having them take turns running night time emergencies. I told a couple of them that they could make a great deal of money doing this. The problem was I couldn't find any of even two that would be willing to work together. I don't know if that would be a different story now. This was several years ago. I have lost dogs and puppies from lack of emergency services. I feel anyone's pain who has lost a dog or cat. It's a scary feeling to know that once the office's are closed you are pretty much on your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisDogMom Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) One more thing I'd like to ask as far as snake bites is has anyone checked lately to see if any of the vets carries anti venom? There used to be far less testing capabilities than these last couple of years. Of course the problem remains that if your dogs is bitten "after hours" there still isn't much you can do. Edited May 11, 2016 by KrisDogMom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottie Atwater Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I am surprised that no one has commented on my post or the file I uploaded re injectable vitamin C. It may work as well as anti-venom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisDogMom Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) I haven't read the article but I have heard that vitamin C can work for snake bites. I also heard that if people aren't comfortable with injectable (which is preferred) that's it's possible to give crushed by mouth. This is a very old remedy but anything is better than doing nothing. When I was in Bocas we used to treat snake bites with fluids and steroids followed by antibiotics. I had never heard of the vitamin C treatment Edited May 11, 2016 by KrisDogMom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottie Atwater Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 It can work for other things/illnesses, too. Read the file. You'll be amazed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoSailors Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. This is a great community of folks here on CL! Could ARF or Animales take the lead on establishing an emergency vet that could be accessible for our pets? What needs to be done? How can we help? Twin Wolf: Thank you... we had the hard copy of the Dog Owners Vet book for many years but did not bring it down here. We appreciate the downloadable copy of it. It is an essential book for pet owners. Dottie: Vitamin C...great info...we printed out the file. Never heard of that but we are going to get it -- if we're going to be truly self-sufficient in protecting our pets, we need all the help we can get. That means keeping an arsenal of treatments on hand that work to counteract snake bites and cane toads. Thank you! Keith's comment on Cane Toads (thanks, Keith): What to do and not to do? Jillian brought over some medication and an emergency treatment protocol over for counteracting cane toad venom -- and here's some good information: http://www.greencrossvet.com.au/Pet_Care_Information/Article-198/The-Ugly-And-The-Dangerous-Cane-Toad.aspx Boquete Communtity Players... A big thank you for setting up a talk on this for June 21st! Perhaps this could be an annual event? And finally.... how can we get local vets to participate in this forum and be involved? Great comments by all. Thank you, John & Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoSailors Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 We are giving Boquete Ning credit: http://boquete.ning.com/forum/topics/boquete-directory-area-veterinarians Good on them! We can use all the help we can get for our pets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 The Amigos de Animales site has always had a vet list. It used to be linked on .ning http://aadab.org/vetlist.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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