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Showing content with the highest reputation since 02/19/2017 in all areas

  1. 3 points
    In my role as one of two U.S. Wardens in Boquete, I have observed first hand the consequences of gringos having no health insurance. Only today I dealt with a case of a man being taken to Hospital Mae Lewis with a heart attack only to be transferred to Hospital Regional when it was discovered he had no insurance. He also had not registered to make his veteran's potentially responsible for some of the costs. I encourage each and every one of you who has opted not to have health insurance to pay a visit to Hospital Regional to observe what your care would be like were you to suffer an accident or illness requiring hospitalization.
  2. 3 points
    We put the entire house on a 3 minute timer delay. When power comes back on...it's 3 minutes before we gets ours. That minimizes ( or possibly eliminates) the surge destruction. .I know you can get plug in lights that will go on immediately when the power is out. They stay in your wall sockets. Kind of a cool idea. I have these glow in the dark led flashlights all over the house. Another thing we found that is totally cool is a multiple bank led lamp. It will light up the entire living room and stay on for hours on one charge. We bought those for trips to the coast so we can read when power's out. I still haven't found a battery operated fan for those trips. Man the heat is brutal. When power's out on the coast, you go outside for a night breeze to sleep in the hammock?...you get Dengue there.
  3. 3 points
    Everyone's points are valid. But we pay for electricity (some of us more dearly than others), and it is simply factual that we have come to rely on electricity. I have multiple flashlights within easy reach all over the house, but there are still times when I have to grope about in the absolute dark. This is dangerous, particularly for those of us who are elderly and for whom a fall could be devastating. This danger is multiplied when the lights go out repeatedly. When I arrived home from David about 7:00 last night, the electricity went out just as I was approaching my front door. Were it not for the light in my iPhone, I would not have been able to see to put the key in the lock as there are no streetlights here. Add to this the wear and tear on electrical appliances and light fixtures. Before I got my expensive LED light bulbs, which must be more resistant to surges, I was replacing two or three light bulbs a week during times of electricity unreliability. And, like Bud and Marcelyn, I suspect the recent death of my washing machine to be attributable to surges. I keep my new one unplugged when not in use, as a repairman recommended. I remain of the view that we have a right to expect better service. I intend to file a complaint, and I hope others will too. Panamanians will not because, as some have pointed, they have come to expect poor service.
  4. 2 points
    If I am ever driven away from this "Paradise Found" it will be for the appalling service of Union Fenosa. There is absolutely no wind outside so why would the power in Volcancito this evening be so intermittent? It's amazing that 100+ years after the opening of the Panama Canal this country can still not provide reliable electric power. Anybody who believes Panama has moved away from "3rd World" hasn't experienced Fenosa's lame delivery system in Chiriqui. Can there really be a valid reason for this poor level of service?
  5. 2 points
    http://www.nytimes.com/1862/10/14/news/state-panama-feeling-about-colonization-negroes-chiriqui-reported-blockade-buena.html Interesting history. Here's one of many articles. A book entitled Black Labor on a White canal: Panama 1904-1981 by M. Conniff is an interesting read about labor black/white labor relations during the building of the canal. Enormous prejudice and separation existed that equaled that that existed at the time in the USA. Separation of the school system for black children of workers I found particularly interesting. Their system excelled however ! The black kids came out all the better for it. The prejudice however I found unsettling.
  6. 2 points
    Ok, so we moved to Spain 3 months ago today, and I have to say we have not been without electricity or internet for 1 minute. Yes, our electricity bill is about 75% more than what we paid in Panama, and we do need heat in the winter and probably a/c in July & August. The entire house is electric and we do have a small pool. But I guess you get what you pay for. Our internet is the same as we paid in Panama. Fuel (gas/diesel) is a bit more, but household goods, vehicles and groceries are less. The choices are unlimited. No surge protectors needed!
  7. 2 points
    Pat, I use a high powered animal fence. If it keeps cows in, I am sure I will hear the squeal of a maleante as he climbs over it. It is unobtrusive, so you dont really know it is there. Won't kill anyone, so no need for insurance. Total cost, including battery backup is less than $1000, and that's my estimate for covering over 3 acres. Bonnie, look at a motion activated light backed with a small UPS at your entry door. It will come on as you approach and stay on for whatever time you set. They have a second purpose too - if it doesn't come on it is time to be suspicious and call a friend without getting out of your car. For those a bit unsteady on their feet, the plug in lights that come on when the power goes out (Do-It, around $25 or less) will give plenty of light and security. In a power outage of less than 4-5 hours there is no reason why you should have to fumble around in the dark.
  8. 2 points
    Dottie, I don't disagree with you. But there are special cases. Two life-changing events of which I'm aware are returning to live with family one or more member of which is allergic to dogs/cats, and relocating to an assisted living facility that doesn't accept pets. Sometimes heart-wrenching decisions have to be made.
  9. 2 points
    In an earlier forum on the subject of electrical service, I joined Bud and Marcelyn in complaining about the cost of electricity. My utility bills started out being in the $125 to $140per month range. Being used to electricity bills in the States, and having plenty of other things to attend to associated with settling in, it took me a while to realize that this was much higher than that of others. Over the years I sought the services of three different electricians, none of whom offered suggestions that solved the problem. Then, about a year ago, my bill went to between $160 and $180 dollars a month. Exasperated but determined to get to the bottom of this, I asked Juan Arauz for help. He came and recommended five things: change to LED light bulbs; replace my fish pond pump with a more efficient one; put a timer on my one electric hot water heate;, do some rewiring in the electric box; and replace my refrigerator/freezer with a more energy efficient model. At significant expense, I did all of this with the exception of replacing the refrigerator (having just had to replace my washer and dryer, which was an expensive and unpleasant experience in and of itself). I sat back and waited for my next utility bill. It had gone up to $190!!! I went to Juan's office with the bill, and he concluded that something had to be wrong on Fenosa's end. He came to the house once again and, in ways I don't understand, measured the electricity coming from the pole to my house compared to actual usage. It was a job that took a couple of hours. He recorded his findings and found that there was a problem with Fenosa's transformer outside my house. He told me he had encountered the same issue with another client and successfully had Fenosa rectify it and reimburse the client for past overcharges, although it took several months. So, armed with his findings, he went directly to Fenosa. Miraculously, they met him here that very afternoon and, after some testing of their own, agreed with his findings and made some repairs/changes. The bill I received about three weeks ago was $16.74! I assume a substantial portion of that is reimbursement, but I finally have hope that I've gotten to the bottom of the problem, although it will take me a long time to recover what I've paid over the years.
  10. 1 point
  11. 1 point
    Casa Decor has an excellent upholsterer. And if you tell Patsi what you want and send her a pic of your furniture, she'll even get fabric samples from David for you to look at. And they'll pick up and deliver when done. I'm picky, and I've been happy with the work and the service.
  12. 1 point
    Not wanting to jinx things for us, but we now are approaching three consecutive days without an electrical outage. I can't remember the last time that we have had uninterrupted electrical service for that length of time. Disclaimer: I am not including fairly sizable voltage variations in my definition of outage.
  13. 1 point
    This 2012 NY Times piece on Abe Lincoln's plans for Panama and Chiriqui is certainly an interesting little read. disunion Lincoln’s Panama Plan By RICK BEARD August 16, 2012 On Aug. 14 1862, Abraham Lincoln hosted a “Deputation of Free Negroes” at the White House, led by the Rev. Joseph Mitchell, commissioner of emigration for the Interior Department. It was the first time African Americans had been invited to the White House on a policy matter. The five men were there to discuss a scheme that even a contemporary described as a “simply absurd” piece of “charlatanism”: resettling emancipated slaves on a 10,000-acre parcel of land in present-day Panama. Lincoln immediately began filibustering his guests with arguments so audacious that they retain the ability to shock a reader 150 years later. “You and we are different races,” he began, and “have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races.” The African-American race suffered greatly, he continued, “by living among us, while ours suffers from your presence.” Lincoln went on to suggest, “But for your race among us, there could not be war,” and “without the institution of Slavery and the colored race as a basis, the war could not have an existence.” The only solution, he concluded, was “for us both … to be separated.” The president next turned to what he wanted from the five-man delegation. It was selfish, he suggested, that any of them should “come to the conclusion that you have nothing to do with the idea of going to a foreign country.” They must “do something to help those who are not so fortunate as yourselves,” for the colonization effort needed “intelligent colored men” who are “capable of thinking as white men, and not those who have been systematically oppressed.” In asking them to “sacrifice something of your present comfort,” Lincoln invoked George Washington’s sacrifices during the American Revolution. He then asked for volunteers. “If I could find twenty-five able-bodied men, with a mixture of women and children,” he said, “I think I could make a successful commencement.” It is hard to imagine what Lincoln’s guests, all well-educated, well-to-do leaders of Washington’s African-American community, made of this presidential monologue. Edward Thomas, the delegation’s chairman, merely promised to “hold a consultation and in a short time give an answer,” to which Lincoln replied: “Take your full time — no hurry at all.” Lincoln, like several other antislavery Republicans and activists, had a long, deep attachment to colonization. Proponents of colonization included two of Lincoln’s political heroes, Thomas Jefferson and Henry Clay, as well as John Marshall, James Madison, Daniel Webster and even Harriett Beecher Stowe. Since its founding in 1816, the American Colonization Society had sought to relocate free blacks to Africa, where, it was argued, they would enjoy greater freedom. Dominated by planters and politicians from the Upper South whose commitment to slavery was suspect, the A.C.S. enjoyed only modest success: between 1816 and 1860, the organization transported around 11,000 blacks, most of them manumitted slaves, to Africa. By contrast, as many as 20,000 African-Americans left of their own accord during the American Revolution and thousands more found their way along the Underground Railroad to Canada during the first half of the 19th century. “For many white Americans,” the historian Eric Foner has written, “colonization represented a middle ground between the radicalism of the abolitionists and the prospect of the United States’ existing permanently half slave and half free.” Needless to say, few blacks agreed, seeing colonization efforts as, at best, a distraction from abolition and, at worst, a form of slavery by other means. Opposition did nothing to diminish Lincoln’s belief in the merits of colonization. As early as April 10, 1861, two days before the bombardment of Fort Sumter, the new president met with Ambrose W. Thompson, head of the Chiriquí Improvement Association, to explore the creation of a colony for emigrants in Panama, where newly arrived emancipated slaves would earn a living by mining coal for the Navy. Gideon Welles, the secretary of the navy, opposed Lincoln’s scheme, but three other members of the cabinet — Interior Secretary Caleb Smith, Postmaster General Montgomery Blair and Attorney General Edward Bates — supported the plan. As the war progressed, Union policy makers faced increased pressure to develop strategies for how to manage the growing number of slaves who fled to Union lines, were freed by the advancing federal armies or were emancipated by federal legislation, like the two confiscation acts or the abolition of slavery in the nation’s capital and the federal territories. When Congress passed the District of Columbia Act emancipating slaves in Washington in April 1862, it also appropriated $100,000 to resettle “such free persons of African descent now residing in said District, including those liberated by this act, as may desire to emigrate.” Two months later, Congress appropriated an additional $500,000 to colonize slaves whose masters were disloyal to the United States. And on July 16, the House Select Committee on Emancipation and Colonization recommended $20 million for settling confiscated slaves beyond United States borders. No doubt buoyed by these signs of Congressional support, Lincoln pushed forward with the Chiriquí plan and instructed Mitchell to arrange the Aug. 14 meeting. The five delegates included Edward Thomas, the delegation chair and a prominent black intellectual and cultural leader; John F. Cook Jr., an Oberlin-educated teacher who ran a church-affiliated school; Benjamin McCoy, a teacher and the founder of an all-black congregation; John T. Costin, a prominent black Freemason; and Cornelius Clark, a member of the Social, Civil, and Statistical Association, an important black social and civic organization that had recently sought to banish several emigration promoters from Washington. Mitchell’s own views on the desirability of colonization mirrored those of the president he served. The delegates he recruited were not at all convinced. The men had been wary of the president’s intentions and had agreed to attend only after adopting two resolutions criticizing the plans, as a way to provide political cover. Lincoln’s strategy at the meeting prevented any of these men from voicing their own opinions on the matter of colonization, and the delegation never responded formally to Lincoln’s plan. Nevertheless, the publication of Lincoln’s remarks at the meeting generated a furious response from all corners of the anti-slavery world. To Senator John P. Hale, a Radical Republican from New Hampshire, “The idea of removing the whole colored population from this country is one of the most absurd ideas that ever entered into the head of man or woman.” Lincoln’s treasury secretary, Salmon P. Chase, wrote in his diary, “How much better would be a manly protest against prejudice against color! — and a wise effort to give freemen homes in America!” On Aug. 22 William Lloyd Garrison editorialized that “the nation’s four million slaves are as much the natives of this country as any of their oppressors,” and two weeks later The Pacific Appeal noted that Lincoln’s words “made it evident that he, his cabinet, and most of the people, care but little for justice to the negro.” And Frederick Douglass said that “the President of the United States seems to possess an ever increasing passion for making himself appear silly and ridiculous, if nothing worse.” Lincoln’s hopes for the Chiriquí venture barely outlasted the summer. On Aug. 28 he accepted an offer from Kansas Senator Samuel C. Pomeroy to organize black emigration parties to Central America, and on Sept. 11 he authorized Caleb Smith to sign an agreement with Thompson advancing money to develop the mines. But on Sept. 24, two days after issuing the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation, Lincoln abruptly suspended Pomeroy’s operation. The Chiriquí venture was, in retrospect, doomed from the start. Ambrose Thompson’s title to the coal lands proved questionable, and a report by the Smithsonian Institution’s Joseph Henry found that the Chiriquí coal was almost worthless as fuel. Several Central American governments also opposed the plan: Luis Molina, a diplomat representing Honduras, Nicaragua and Costa Rica, characterized the plans as a thinly disguised effort to make Central America the depository for “a plague of which the United States desired to rid itself.” The failed venture hurt hundreds of people who had volunteered to go on the first trip. “Many of us have sold our furniture” and “have given up our little homes to go,” wrote one emigrant. The uncertainty and delay are “reducing our scanty means” and “poverty in a still worse form than has yet met us may be our winter prospect.” In response, Lincoln could do no more than ask for their forbearance. After issuing the Emancipation Proclamation, the president never again issued any public statements on colonization Follow Disunion at twitter.com/NYTcivilwar or join us on Facebook. Sources: Frederick Douglass, “The President and His Speeches,” Douglass Monthly, September 1862; Paul D. Escott, “What Shall We Do With the Negro? Lincoln, White Racism, and Civil War America”; Eric Foner, “Lincoln and Colonization” in “Our Lincoln: New Perspectives on Lincoln and His World”; Doris Kearns Goodwin, “Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln”; Harold Holzer, “Emancipating Lincoln: The Proclamation in Text, Context, and Memory”; Abraham Lincoln, “Address on Colonization to a Deputation of Negroes, August 14, 1862” in “Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln,” vol. 5; Kate Masur, “The African American Delegation to Abraham Lincoln: A Reappraisal,” in Civil War History, vol. 56, no. 2; James Oakes, “The Radical and the Republican: Frederick Douglass, Abraham Lincoln, and the Triumph of Antislavery Politics”; Benjamin Quarles, “The Negro in the Civil War”; Michael Vorenberg, “Abraham Lincoln and the Politics of Black Colonization,” in Journal of the Abraham Lincoln Association, vol. 14, Issue 2, Summer 1993. Rick Beard is an independent historian and coordinator of the Civil War Sesquicentennial for the American Association for State and Local History.
  14. 1 point
    Why would I think the warehouse area might be organized?
  15. 1 point
    Ahhh, the vagaries of the interweb. Personally, I blame Al Gore...
  16. 1 point
    The emergency battery powered lights in the BCP theater were recently replaced by our great electronics guy Phil Bennett. I can ask Phil where he bought them. As I remember they were relatively inexpensive (maybe $30???)
  17. 1 point
    I have never found them at Do-It. Panafoto had them years ago, but when they ran out, they didn't restock them. I have found them only in the Chinese mini-supers. You have to look, because they are among other stuff.
  18. 1 point
    Jim, just checked the link and it says nothing available. I saw a whole bunch of them in DoIt a few weeks ago on sale, maybe they ran out? There is a lighting store on lhe left side just over the new bridge in David (I think it is the LED store) near the Beverly Hills Plaza. They have a good assortment of lights in there, prices a bit higher than DoIt, but stuff is available. DoIt does have small UPS units for around $50, will run one of my big TV's for 15 mins during a power outage. For those with UPS units that have bad batteries, Casa de Batteria has new ones for about $25.
  19. 1 point
    Thanks, John. Actually, I had already thought of that. I have a covered porch and two plugs out there. Do you know what these lights are actually called so when I go to Ivan's or wherever I don't flounder around all day? Jim, you have expressed my sentiments exactly. Every minute that the power is off seems like 30 minutes to me. I guess I'm a wuss.
  20. 1 point
    Bonnie, you can get them at Ivan and at the Dorado mini-super in Boquete. I have one very large one, a couple of long medium size ones, a couple of lanterns, and a small flashlight, all rechargeable and very bright.
  21. 1 point
    I had never seen or heard of the battery powered plug in lights. They sound like just the ticket. I'm off to David to get a couple as soon as I recover from having made two trips there in two days. Thanks, John. I have a heavy duty refrigerator grade plug for my washer and am waiting for the electrician to come install it. I suppose I also could put a light of some sort on the UPS I have for the computer. I do have a generator for really seriously long outrages. (But I still think Fenosa stinks.)
  22. 1 point
  23. 1 point
    It is what it is. The longer we live here the more accustomed we are to failures. On the coast in Veraguas where it's hot as hell power goes out for 10-15 hours at a time on a regular basis. Along with that the phone system seems to fail. Computer speed is snail slow all the time. So we thank God we chose to live here in Boquete. We don't get too tweeked when power fails for a time here. (for one thing it's nice and cool up here and you don't need a fan when you are without power.) It's all relative I guess. If we were back in Florida where my husband was raised, we'd be paying $300-500/mo electric bills....
  24. 1 point
    Pat, Keith is probably a lot more "peopl-ey" than I am ( not that that says anything about his choice of hockey teams) If you can get past my electric fence and the alarm system ( both on back- ups) there is always the "Secondhand lion" sitting on the front deck.
  25. 1 point
    The older I get, the less resilient I've become. What was once annoying is now exasperating. If and when I decide to leave, electrical service will be at the top of my list of reasons, too. I find it peculiar that Panamanians will strike and will block roads over all sorts of issues, but, as far as I know, poor electrical service isn't one of them. The people and the government should demand better from Fenosa. Fenosa's inattention to issues can be extremely dangerous.There's the infamous pole next to the municipal mercado, for example, that is/was within reach of both pedestrians and vehicles and even bore a sign that said it was dangerous. I also remember a year or so ago when a tall metal pole on the side of my street (which served absolutely no purpose) was sparking and popping loudly whenever it was windy and the electrical lines blew into it. Children walk up and down this road every day, children who could have been killed had they touched the pole at the wrong time. But it took three trips to the Fenosa office and innumerable phone calls to have someone come to look at it. Then, all they did was bend the pole back a little.
  26. 1 point
    It didn't start "within the next few hours" on the Boquete/David road. I returned from a doctor's appointment in David about 6:00, in the semi-dark and off and-on-rain, and plenty of cars passed me doing at least 100 kph. I observed no police presence whatsoever. But I suppose it'll take them a day or two--IF they're serious. It occurred to me the other day that, given the state of many vehicles here, the government would be wise to combine vehicle inspection with the annual registrado process. I feel sure that bald tires, poor brakes, etc. contribute to the traffic fatalities.
  27. 1 point
    I understand that a popular vet in David routinely does this so that the animals "can still have fun." Appalling. Most scientists agree that animal copulation is in response to the procreation urge rather than the pursuit of pleasure.
  28. 1 point
  29. 1 point
    I wasn't being critical necessarily, just musing out loud.
  30. 1 point
    RANT MODE ON. For the past three weeks we have had horrible electrical service. Again this morning, just a bit short of four hours with no electricity. Service outages, brown outs, and surges are frequent occurrences in our area. I have used my label printing machine to permanently put the Fenosa telephone numbers and my NIS number on the edge of my built-in desk in the office. A few days ago we took delivery of a replacement washing machine. I can't say definitively, but I strongly believe that power was the cause of that casualty. Before anyone chastises me, YES, we have surge protection and voltage regulators. Besides the inconveniences of doing our Spanish homework by lantern, worrying about loosing frozen foods, replacing lots of batteries in our flashlights and lanterns, and light bulbs blowing out (yet another two just a few days ago), appliance replacements are more than petty cash. And our poor generator really got a workout when our electricity was out for four days. Enough is enough. It can't be all because of winds and tree limbs. I can't imagine that there are that many trees in all of Panama. RANT MODE OFF. We are not happy campers. Are others in this area similar victims of poor electrical service? To end on a positive note, the customer service people at Fenosa do answer their telephones 24x7 when I call in my trouble calls.
  31. 1 point
    I don't understand why so many people want to abandon their "beloved dogs" instead of taking the dogs with them when they leave. In this case, I understand that he has had a life-changing event, but it seems that beloved dogs would be a comfort in sad times.
  32. 1 point
    Is is Saha or Asha? Spaying removes the uterus and ovaries. How could she be coming into heat?
  33. 1 point
    Please find a PDF format of a PowerPoint presentation on the Trees and Plants of Boquete. Watch for announcements on News Boquete. Note: this 100 page PDF document is quite large (~20MB) and so it may take a while to download. This PDF version has been optimized for web access from its original ~198MB PowerPoint file size, but with essentially no loss in fidelity of the images. Trees and Plants of Boquete - Feb. 2017 - optimized.pdf
  34. 1 point
    Any new news on the new Riba Smith in David? They were supposed to break ground this year but I have a funny feeling that the owners of the new mall in David must have made them a sweet heart deal hence no construction.
  35. 1 point
    Bud: People from provinces in Panama always complain that the utility and other services companies treat them like second class citizens. They center their main operation in Panama City and the metropolitan area but do not do much in the Interior or provinces. In Panama City there are not such problems that you suffered and if something happens they solved it quickly. There is an Agency to complain about the service of utilities companies. It is called ASEP. I am not so sure how to do it but they could give you a hint on the ways to place a claim if you have any damaged appliance because of the power surges and brownouts. I will suggest to look for that information and file a complain. There is nothing to lose. Just give it a try.
  36. 1 point
    Thanks for the recipe, and thanks Sassy Blake for the notice about Price Smart muffins.
  37. 1 point
    Bud, that's pretty bad. I'm sorry you are having this problem, and that on top of your $200 electric bill! Have you tried calling Rodny and asking him to intervene? He was successful getting a Union Fenosa problem solved for somebody else who had been running around in circles. Regarding flashlights, I gave them up years ago in favor of the rechargeable lights. They are much brighter (one lights a whole room), and they don't need batteries. You find them at the Chinese stores.
  38. 1 point
    There are psychiatrists here, so I suppose they treat the mentally ill.
  39. 1 point
    You're right Keith. She shouldn't be tried for animal cruelty. Apparently she is mentally ill and thought she was protecting the cats. She should be helped, not punished.
  40. 1 point
    The worst part is, the ropes don't seem to be more than a foot long.
  41. 1 point
    Judy Odom will probably be taking in several of these cats. She could really use food and money donations, as she already has many rescued cats that she cares for. Please send me a private message if you want to help her.
  42. 1 point
    What a joke - her "secret hideaway" in Panama. She was in plain sight, running a restaurant in Volcan.
  43. 1 point
    Of course you're right about the necessity to conduct research before getting involved with anything like this. I was not clear. I object to any ad that does not reveal the name of the sender of that ad, not just this particular one. We've gone through this before with some other posts. Like you, I would not have been interested in any event, but I still would like to know who posted. Maybe that's asking too much.
  44. 1 point
    Great reference. Thanks so much, Peter.
  45. 1 point
  46. 1 point
    We all await answers to the big questions: 1) pipe size in a growing community 2) Sewage processing in a valley that floods. How and where exactly will this sewage plant be constructed. 3) Plant? Will there be a plant ? What exactly are these tubs of water reserve spoken of? Settling tanks? I remain a bit puzzled still. Hopefully more will come from engineers in order that we fully understand.
  47. 1 point
    What I like about this is that I see the community very well interested in the project and participating actively with the authorities when a concern and doubts arise. People have become the Project's inspector. That is good. It is the way to address any problem that could affect the good performance of the project in the future. The contractor is aware that people are concerned and vigilant of the work they are doing. All of you keep doing it. I have seen in other parts of Panama that people do not participate in checking the projects and denouncing anything bad happening and then start complaining when the job is finished and very difficult to address the problem. Good Job!!
  48. 1 point
  49. 1 point
    I am incredulous. Doesn't anyone submit plans before getting a $25 million contract??
  50. 1 point
    6 inch waste pipe. Don't toss your poop paper down the toilet and stop taking Metamucil .