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  1. 4 points
    Please. A lady is a lady and a gentleman should always have good words and compliments to ladies in a very respectul way. It doesnt have to do with any "dating" situation. It is only being and behaving like a gentleman under the presence of a lady and should not be seen as a personal approach. of any means
  2. 4 points
    To clarify - yes we were both single when we got married. We had a choice of getting married in the US, in Colombia or in Panama. Colombia was the easiest, least expensive and least complicated as far as paperwork. When it comes to a resident visa in Panama, the marriage is only important in the fact that it is needed to prove that my Panama company (Friendly Nations Visa via my Panama S.A.) is what is providing the income. Neither of us are pensionados and she does not qualify for any other type of visa. My point was that in order to get the paperwork to prove our marriage in Colombia, we would need to go to Colombia to get it and upon returning they will not let her enter the country. So the lawyer suggested that if we could not return with the paperwork, then we should essentially lie to Panama and get married here again as if we were single. This goes to my point that yet another so called reputable lawyer's answer is for us it to lie and create false paperwork to get around what should be a simple trip to get proof of marriage. This is the system here. Lie, cheat, get around the rules and play the game. I did it before for 5 years because I was naive. I am smart enough now to know that Panama is going to keep changing the rules with new decrees. What the Panama and the lawyer tell me today will not be what the facts tomorrow. Admittedly we are in an unusual situation. Looking at her passport it appears she has been border hopping for the last year. In fact we were merely dating and travelling between the two countries until we finally got married a few months ago. The lawyer had no answer when I asked what the difference was between visiting often and border hopping. Everything we did for the last year was legal and within the laws, rules and decrees at that time. Our visits were always in one country or the other for at least a month length - not a 3 day hop. Is there a way for us to go thru the system and get her a visa? Yes. The cost is estimated at $5,000+ due to various circumstances. There is no simple way for Panama to look at my residency for the last 8 years and then give her a spousal visa for some additional fee. On the other hand, Colombia looks at me as her new husband and says I can have spousal visa for about $200 (effective immediately) and then permanent residency and dual citizenship after 3 years. The process is a few hours long and my passport is updated within a week or two. As one lawyer told me - Panama sees the border hoppers as a great deal of money if it can just force them into a visa process. And I do not disagree that people should be here legally. I have proudly showed my papers at every checkpoint and admired the country for making sure people were legal. My complaint is that they are punishing the very people who want to go thru the process, such as my wife. Don't get me wrong, I love my life here and I have fought hard to be here legally. As I said in my original post, I am raising the white flag. I have lived here and been a supporting member of the community. I have employed dozens of Panamanians and given to the country in many ways. I have changed as Panama evolved and sought to always be honest and forthright. Panama is asking too much. The lawyer sharks are circling ready to lie and cheat with promises of a simple visa that is just a mirage. I think I will swim somewhere else, thanks...
  3. 4 points
    In my role as one of two U.S. Wardens in Boquete, I have observed first hand the consequences of gringos having no health insurance. Only today I dealt with a case of a man being taken to Hospital Mae Lewis with a heart attack only to be transferred to Hospital Regional when it was discovered he had no insurance. He also had not registered to make his veteran's benefits potentially responsible for some of the costs. I encourage each and every one of you who has opted not to have health insurance to pay a visit to Hospital Regional to observe what your care would be like were you to suffer an accident or illness requiring hospitalization.
  4. 3 points
    Well said Bud. Both Roger and as well Two Sailors are wonderful friends of mine (as is Bonnie). These are some super great people ! I'd hate for there to be any kind of misunderstanding as you explained. You are an excellent moderator and we all appreciate you jumping in.
  5. 3 points
    Moderator preface: The following posts were split out of a different topic that was related to an Executive Decree of December 2016 that dramatically shortened the time that a tourist visa was valid in Panama. That topic then began to focus on Steven Walker and his family, and their issues of being barred from returning to Panama after a "border hopping" cycle at Paso Canoas. For more details on that topic, see the referenced citation that has been added to this posting. One side effect of that Executive Decree is that another expatriate with legal residency (@Twin Wolf Technology Group), who recently married a Colombian citizen in Medellin is having to make a decision how to handle their situation. That portion of the conversation started focusing on how to get Panama to recognize their Colombian marriage documentation so that the new bride could apply for residency in Panama as the legal wife of a non-Panamanian but legal resident of Panama. While directly related to the border hopping topic, the primary focus really is marriage outside of Panama, the Registro Civil, and the implications of a non-Panamanian wedding on residency in Panama. Thus, the Moderator has made a decision to split out those postings and start a new topic. What follows is the split out topic related to marriage documentation. No one did anything wrong, as this is just a natural progression of a train of thought that morphed into a different but related topic. The original topic is here: And the new topic starts here: The decision for me and my new bride comes down to how much of a battle we wish to fight vs the ultimate benefits. One of the many lawyers we visited stated we should just get married again in Panama before we leave in April. I quickly pointed out that this would mean forging documents to say we are both single when in fact we are not... the lawyer saw no problem with it. I am a person with both persistence and patience. I am also forthright and honest. I will not try to game the system and if that is what is required, We will move on despite my desires and the life built here in Panama over the last 8 years.
  6. 3 points
    Isn't the problem, though, that Panama does not recognize the legality of the marriage? It's similar to the time when most states in the USA did not recognize the legality of a gay marriage that was lawfully performed in one that did. It seems to me that under Panamanian law, you ARE single, and it's not dishonest of you to say that you are. All you are conceding is AS TO PANAMA ONLY, you are single! I don't think Panama recognizes my marriage, either. My wife and I applied jointly to acquire our visas, but I'm pretty sure obtaining them didn't register our marriage. That could be a problem if any of my estate is subject to Panamanian probate. Don't tell my wife that I think I am single here in Panama, please.
  7. 3 points
    I flew out of Tocumen last Wednesday, and security absolutely scrutinized my passport. The lady had a problem with it and started grilling me in Spanish. I'm not even close to fluent, so fished my e-cedula out of my wallet. That fixed everything instantly. In hindsight, she clearly was troubled that my last entry into Panama was far more than 180 days ago.
  8. 2 points
    This was funny the first time I saw it years ago. It's even more hilarious now -- especially if you've had a recent experience dealing with the bureaucracy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXWZ3uAEKsw
  9. 2 points
    I wonder how long it is going to take for this to shake out. I was hoping we could get more clarification from SMM. As one of two U.S. Wardens in Boquete, I am getting a lot of questions and feel badly that I have no answers. For folks who are not already here but are interested in relocating to Boquete, my advice is to make several vacation trips to test the waters. The conventional wisdom of renting for six months to a year before deciding whether to apply for residency is no longer feasible. Once the decision is made to come, begin work on your visa before leaving the U.S. (or whatever country you're from). I am assuming until told otherwise that a temporary visa will not be issued until all the paperwork is done and submitted to the government, which can take months depending on your circumstances. It also is easier to get U.S. documentation that will be needed while you are in the U.S.
  10. 2 points
    I don't want to sound like a pessimist here, but it may not be possible to get coherent or definitive answers to our questions. I thought the rules for a Friendly Nations visa were pretty clear when I applied, but it turned out that the interpretation was not consistent at Immigracion, and it varied between the clerks. I spent weeks complying with new requirements that were imposed, only to have a different clerk impose something entirely different. The 4th time was the charm. It's not just a Panamanian thing. Lawmakers in the USA routinely pass legislation without even reading it. Afterwards, other people must attempt to figure out what Congress intended. It can take years for a court to decide. Here, as everywhere, the people who enforce the law or policy had nothing to do with the creation of the new directive. They make their best guesses or do whatever their immediate boss tells them to do. I think we may have to wait months or even longer to see how or if Panama consistently addresses individual cases. The track record will be far more useful than logic or predictions. At least it will for me...
  11. 2 points
    That is correct. We wanted to get rid of them but they are like cockroaches.... They appear suddenly from every crack available. Remember that the laws are made to protect criminals not decent people.
  12. 2 points
    I was boarding a flight in Houston, going to Panama. There was an agent stationed right at the airline door asking everybody if they had more than $10,000 on them. The guy behind me muttered under his breath, "If I had $10,000 I'd be flying first class."
  13. 2 points
    If this is correct and true....it is a serious problem and authorities should be placed in knowledge of this thing. Unfortunatelly he hasnt done anything yet and authorities couldnt do anything based on assumptions but.... keep a close look at that.
  14. 2 points
    2500, maybe 3,000. The best source of data would probably be Pricesmart's membership list, lol.
  15. 2 points
    This is a cultural/language problem with the USA, Roger. I can have any number of amigas in Panama but only one novia. The USA does not have a good word for amiga. Our only word is girlfriend and it isn't the right word. jim
  16. 2 points
    Do you know any Russians who can help you hack into the site?
  17. 2 points
    Interesting. I'm trying to do the right thing and sign up for STEP. No matter what i attempt to do I get bounced. Username choice?: taken. Ok new user/pass. Half way through the site jams and shuts down. I then went to page #1 and attempted to put my newer choices of user/pass. I was told they were taken. I put my email in there and was also told it was incorrect. ( I do better buying stuff on Amazon.com !) I'm taking a breather. Will try again later. This may be why so few have signed up...just a guess.
  18. 2 points
    I think all of us knew it was a joke. Bud just wanted to make sure everybody realized it was.
  19. 2 points
    I was in the meeting with the ambassador last week. Actually what he was said about 4,500 US expatriates in the Chiriqui province, not Boquete. Not a big deal here, but he was trying to make a point that only 297 of them have registered for the Step program. Nothing wrong with using the same number for Marie Elaine's purpose. But on the other hand, JohnF makes a good point. I go further to sugtgest that if someone is a border hopper then they likely are on a smaller budget and they would be onthe low end of spending money here. To my way of thinking, this issue is not so much about the financial impoact on Panama, but rather the country has a right to determine its policies. As a guest in their country (you are a guest if you are not a citizen, be you a resident or a tourist), then we should respect their right to determine their policies.
  20. 2 points
    At my age, Roger, I accept any and all compliments. Yours was particularly nice.
  21. 2 points
    It's time for me to start looking for a small, quiet town in the mountains where the food is fresh, the people are friendly and no one's in a rush.
  22. 2 points
    Interesting article in yesterday's NYT about the situation: https://www.nytimes.com/es/2017/03/11/panama-crecio-con-los-inmigrantes-pero-ahora-son-el-chivo-expiatorio-de-la-crisis/
  23. 2 points
    I believe it was well known to Panamanian authorities that the tourist loophole was being used. Suddenly eliminating it has caught some people unaware, and for the Walkers it is catastrophic. Yes, yes, coulda woulda shoulda, but with some advance they wouldn't have been stranded with no way to get back to their property and the monkeys under their care. I feel so badly for them. I'm on a trip to the US at present, so I didn't find out about this until last night. Panama has every right to enforce its immigration laws, but the sudden new enforcement rules (which are still unclear) have put some very good people in one hell of a bind.
  24. 2 points
    I have to take exception to the thought that if people would just do it right from the beginning they would not have this problem. I have attempted to do it right from the beginning. I have fought the battle for more than 5 years to get a resident visa because I wanted to do it right. Everyone has a different experience with lawyers and the immigration system, let me share a bit of mine. I came to Panama 8 years ago with a company that invested more than $300,000 into Panama. The law firm we chose came recommended by others in the same type of business. The lawyers at the time told us that several of us would then automatically qualify for permanent visas due to our investment. Despite 2 years of promises and constant badgering, the resident visas never materialized. When the business finally closed and returned to the US, I was left to battle getting a resident visa on my own. The corruption among lawyers in Panama is rampant and there is no legal way to hold them accountable for their actions. My second attempt to get a resident visa ended shortly after it began and while it resulted in a loss of money, it was certainly less of a loss than the previous experience. It seems that the man representing himself as a lawyer was in fact not a lawyer but his girlfriend was a lawyer and he was forging the documents in her name. Again, no way to hold him accountable without throwing money into a system that cranks out lawyers like raindrops in October and never punishes them. The third attempt was here in Boquete. I signed on with lawyer that came recommended by many on Ning and other places. It is always best to get recommendations but in each case those recommendations meant nothing. Once again I ended up with a dishonest lawyer. His office in San Francisco plaza closed shortly after I paid him and he refused most phone calls. I continued to badger him for 2 years, tracking him down as he changed locations and refused my calls. I heard every excuse in the book including "his car was broken into and they stole my final paperwork". Multiple trips to Immigration were needed because his paperwork was rejected several times. Ultimately I triumphed but at a cost far exceeding anything reasonable and with 5+ years of border hopping to continue the battle.. Since I own a car, I was forced to hop every 90 days instead of the 180, just to keep my driver’s license valid. I can understand that Panama is trying to prevent abuses but how is an honest person supposed to navigate the sewer of lawyers and endless hurdles? Even if you get lucky and find the one honest lawyer in all of Panama, how is someone supposed to do it in the 90 days without multiple trips out of the country given the process take a year minimum? Despite my long and finally successful battle, I am now faced with this issue again. I married a wonderful Colombian woman in January and of course she is a tourist since we have only been married a couple of months. We were married in Colombia and Panama could care less. For them, she is a tourist who has crossed the border multiple times in the last year (of course she did, we were dating!) We talked about where to live and she agreed to move to Panama. We have already purchased a flight back to Colombia at the start of April. The purpose of the trip is for me to get a spousal visa for Colombia (I want to be legal) and for her to apply for a tourist visa so she can visit my family in the US for Christmas. We were also going to get our marriage certificate and her paperwork apostilled so she could start her Panama visa process. It now appears she will not be permitted to come back to Panama due to this short-sighted and ill-considered decree. We have 21 days to get her a visa or some sort of paperwork that permits her to return to live with her new husband. Anyone living here knows, Panama doesn’t do anything quick - other than change the rules and enforcement. It is looking like our best option is to raise the white flag of surrender. Colombia is welcoming us with open arms. My resident visa in Colombia is a simple one day process – not a five year battle with unaccountable lawyers. Maybe Panama's next government can work on cleaning up its lawyers and legal system so the rules don't change at the gust of every breeze in March. My point is that while it is easy for some to say “do it the right way from the beginning… It will save you from problems in the future”, the reality in Panama is quite different. While those who have their visas may rest easy now, as I was doing, Panama is just as likely to change the rules with a decree and take away your peace of mind. My experience.
  25. 2 points
    Many year ago, in the old BN, when Lee Zeltzer managed it there were several threads and discussions about border hoping and people who where taking this risk to this. Lee and other people at BN gave good advices of how to do things right. There were heated debates about this issue and the advice was always. Do what it is right. I do remember that the first two waves of immigrants that arrived Boquete and Chiriqui areas did everything as was stated and required. They processed their visas, got their ID, others got their residency and were given an E-Cedula. Something happened that the other waves of people coming to Boquete and Chiriqui started to skip some process and looking for shortcuts that the loophole in the law was giving them. A lot of people complained about the cost of the visas and some inmoral and bad lawyers that scam the money of some people and didnt do their job in getting all the stuff done in time, at a normal cost and less traumatic. Other people gave testimonials of the lawyers they used that they recommended because they did a good job and did all the paperwork correctly, in very short time and at a reasonable cost. This lead to the creation of a list of attorneys or lawyers that were recommended by those expats that got their immigration status done. I do remember that everytime a person asked for an immigration lawyer references at least 4 to 5 names were repeatedly given. So that means that a person thinking seriously in living in Panama could have this done with the help of those lawyers that were recommended by a large number of expat that used their services and were totally satisfied. Border hoping is not "illegal" but it is not legal also. It is a black hole in the law for tourist that some immigrants are taking advantage. Thanks to the extensive and exagerated use of this shortcut by expats from Venezuela and Colombia this loophole in the law came into the direct attention of the immigration authorities and for sure they will legislated on that. I know a lot of expats of the first two generations that have the legal immigration status on rule that are now in peace and happy seeing this situation without fear. They did it right. I got a slogan I told my family, friends and colleagues. If you are going to do something... do it the right way from the beggining and dont take any shortcut or skip things. It will save you from problems in the future. Nothing is more important than peace of mind.
  26. 2 points
    I just read an old post on Ning written by Steve Walker. Steve said he had been doing the border crossing every 90 days for 10 years to reset his tourist visa and drivers license. It seems to me that this is the perfect example of what Panama is trying to prevent.
  27. 2 points
    Alison Having your E cedula means that you are legally a resident in Panama. So I guess that the only thing you have to do is going to the Tribunal Electoral with your old cedula and apply for a new one. Just as any other panamanian do. I investigate and found in the Panama Tramita Web page: http://www.panamatramita.gob.pa/tramite/renovación-de-cédulas-de-extranjeros, that your have to go to the Tribunal Electoral with the old Cedula and pay a fee of about $4.00. They will take the picture and you have to return back in 3 days to pick up the new cedula.
  28. 2 points
    Lost in all the carping about border hopping, is the fact that problems at Migracion in Paso Canoas always have to do with very human economic refugees less fortunate than ourselves.
  29. 2 points
    You gotta be kidding. This is a joke, right? $35.00 per person for a brunch. These people should apologize for this outrageous line of thinking. And to add insult to injury, the jubilados discount doesn't apply. How do they get around the law?
  30. 2 points
    WHY BOQUETE? People ask me all the time - Why Panama - and especially Why Boquete? Here's why: Two weeks ago at the Tuesday meeting the community was invited to a day of awareness (Heart in the Park) to learn how Boquete provides services for persons with disabilities. I mentioned the great work done by the Fundacion (FPI)better known as the Handicap Foundation - where recently volunteers went on a home visit and found a severely disabled man, living alone, in a shack with no roof, sleeping on cardboard using hose for water, his body racked with painful spasms. Yesterday, Romero got a new home. Two volunteers at the Foundation, Judy and Mike Hart asked him to come and live with them. He said "Yes."That's why I live here.
  31. 2 points
    It didn't start "within the next few hours" on the Boquete/David road. I returned from a doctor's appointment in David about 6:00, in the semi-dark and off and-on-rain, and plenty of cars passed me doing at least 100 kph. I observed no police presence whatsoever. But I suppose it'll take them a day or two--IF they're serious. It occurred to me the other day that, given the state of many vehicles here, the government would be wise to combine vehicle inspection with the annual registrado process. I feel sure that bald tires, poor brakes, etc. contribute to the traffic fatalities.
  32. 2 points
  33. 2 points
  34. 1 point
    It is the same rule that is now being used in every airport I travel. In the US or in any country of Central America and South America.
  35. 1 point
    The 27% doesn't surprise me. After all, a lot of the U.S. Folk live nowhere near a border and don't have an exploring spirit - apart from the U.S of A.
  36. 1 point
    I believe Roger is married. I know he has children. In any case, I'm sure I'm much older than he is. But it's always nice to get a compliment.
  37. 1 point
    Another question that occurs to me is how to deal with the driver's license issue. Can one drive for only 90 of the 180 days? It would appear so. Or is there a way to reset the driver's license without leaving the country for a month? Also, at what point in the resident visa process does one receive the temporary visa allowing that person to stay in the country until the final visa is issued? When one first begins the process, or when all documentation has been gathered and submitted? Let me know other questions and answers that aren't clear to you so maybe I can seek clarification in just one email.
  38. 1 point
    You will never get the massive number of lawyers to give the same information since it is to their own self interest to give or exclude certain information. What is a shame is that the government could very easily solve the confusion by having a single website or set of sites that stated the information factually. Of course enforcement of the rules is another matter all together. The law says one thing, the decree says another and enforcement seems to be independent of either. Having a resource that the common man could access would help protect against unscrupulous lawyers. In my case, after stating on this site that I was giving up, a lawyer came forward and suggested that it was a simple matter for us to get my wife a "family reunification" visa or "dependent" visa based on our marriage. No other lawyer had offered this and I found almost no mention of it on Panama's migration and government websites. The lawyers only offered me various other paths for her to become part of my Friendly Nations visa and quoted prices of $5,000+ Now, whether or not this family reunification visa is in fact available to us, and at the quoted price of $1,050, remains to be seen. This goes to the point that there does not appear to be a single authoritative source to list all of visas that are available along with their requirements. There are many websites that list a few common ones, often out of date, yet no authoritative one that I have been able to find. I like to be well armed before approaching a lawyer so I can discuss things intelligently. After all, it's Panama. The only one looking out for us, is us.
  39. 1 point
    I dont know but I think that most of that kind of paperwork could be done without the need of a lawyer. Most people in Panama doesnt have enough money and we do it as much as possible without using a lawyer for simple paperwork.
  40. 1 point
    N22 closed and went to Volcan. No surprise, no parking. Other places count on Plaza Los Establos to provide parking for their clients, which is unfair to the businesses who pay rent there..
  41. 1 point
    This is an issue of Panamanian law, not U.S. law. There is little to nothing that the Embassy can do. Don't expect any answers on Tuesday morning.
  42. 1 point
    Sure. It is the best they can do. Thing down here are not good and it will take some time to clean this stuff and get people doing the right way. So, why have this kind of problem in a Thirld World Country with corrupt government officials and lousy changing laws.
  43. 1 point
    Once you have a letter from your attorney stating that your pensionado visa is in process, you are no longer treated as a border hopping tourist. You will be able to leave and come back.
  44. 1 point
    Hil The problem started when a large amount of people from Venezuela came to Panama flying away from their economic and social problem their country is having. So they are leaving their country with nothing in their hands and only hopes to get a better life. But Panama is a very little country and couldnt have space and jobs for those large amount of "refugees". If we have actually a lot of problems to solve for our own people regarding housing, transportation, education, jobs, cost of living, healthcare and so on. Imagine having increased this problems with new people coming from other country. Lets remember that all of those immigrants from Venezuela are not rich. Some of them are living in small neighborhoods and some of them are renting an apartment and there are more than 8 people living in the apartment and paying together the cost of the monthly rental. They need to make a living and get a job for paying all their bills, food and also send money to their family back in Venezuela. It is a socioeconomic problem Panama is having. Regarding the prominent panamanian you were talking about this issue. We all blame and criticize President Varela's government but most of us because of their very soft immigration policy and lack of controls and also for the economic situation the country have right now. I have to admit very sadly that some prominent panamanian businessmen are taking advantage of this large amount of expats because they are cheap labor not protected by labor laws. They are being underpaid and exploited. Businessmen did not pay them all the stuff that by law should be paid to any legal worker such as overtime, XIII month, vacations, working on a holyday, social security, etc. The foreign people will accept this bad working conditions because they need the money to survive. They are in disadvantage because being illegal makes them fearfull of claiming workers rights. It is a double shame. First they are not giving jobs to their own people and they are hiring people with needs and taking advantage of their needs. Yes. You are safe watching all the news in your living room without any problem. Why? Because you did it right. You are a legal resident and have rights in this country and your are protected by our laws and constitution. They wouldnt have any problem if they did it right in the beginning.
  45. 1 point
    The law is the law. Those of us who came here legally did it according to the laws and requirements of Panama, why anybody else should do it differently or illegally is beyond me. And worse yet, why would somebody try to excuse them for their actions?
  46. 1 point
    Bonnie, Pat identified the cost of the event as the factor that put that event beyond her means. Is it mean-spirited to share that one lives on a limited budget? Unfortunate and perhaps uncomfortable, yes, but mean-spirited I think not. I am glad that Joyful took the time to post a review. Her review was well done. Clearly this was an event that Joyful and her compatriots enjoyed and were able to afford. The part about the jubilado discount that Pat raised is an issue that periodically comes up. My perspective is that the law is the law, and I don't understand how some establishments manage to circumvent it. I do know from personal experience that ACODECO (the agency that would enforce this provision of the law) has been ineffective in the few cases that I have brought to their attention. I would hope that a complaint about not honoring a jubilado discount would, at a minimum, leave a bad mark in a file folder somewhere.
  47. 1 point
    Glad you enjoyed this brunch. Also glad you can afford $35.00 each for this one meal. If you are a friend of Claudia please ask her to lower her price and follow the law regarding pensionado discount requirements.
  48. 1 point
    Without plastic bags, what am I going to do with the scooped cat poop? How are dog walkers supposed to pick up the poop? How are people supposed to throw away disposable diapers, just put them loose in the trash can? And what lines the trash can - nothing, no bag to tie up the trash and put it in the canasta? That is disgusting and unsanitary. This would be an OK law if they replace all the bags with degradable ones, but will they?
  49. 1 point
    Actually, he did have a chance to survive. Unfortunately he was left to bleed out in the road for 45 minutes. No ambulance would come from Bomberos. Finally the private ambulance showed up but a payment of $300 had to be made first. He died shortly after being put in that ambulance. This according to my Panamanian friend who has worked in conjunction with the SS clinic for many years. I have lived here for 11 years. I continue to be shocked and often horrified at the treatment Panamanians receive from their government - especially working class citizens who have no financial leverage. How it is that a country that has the wealth that Panama does, the ability to pay from the government coffers for extravaganzas of all types (including private weddings) travel junkets, villas, and just plain stuffing private bank accounts with the people's money not able to supply a major community with one functioning ambulance? How is it that the wretched state of the so called new Social Security clinic is good enough for the residents of Boquete? Shame on you, Panama end of rant
  50. 1 point